Opinions wanted on darkroom choice

Jake · Jan 15, 2006

Hello everyone, first post here and I'm in a bit of a dilemma. I have two choices to build my darkroom, one is a much larger room with no windows, and has open piping for water, BUT I do not know how difficult it would be to run water into the room from a pipe, tap it? It ALSO has a Sump pump (because it is in the basement) would that be a use as a drain for chemicals/liquids or would it not be safe to drain it outside.

The second choice is a two part bathroom, I would have to have my wet area be on top of a bathtub. The upside would be I would have access to water pretty easily. If I go this route, would the chemicals, stain the porcelain of the bathtub? If so, would a protective sheet of some sort do the job? I am including pictures of the two rooms, Thanks for your time!

Sorry about the mess in the 2nd room, and quality of pictures >.<

-Jake

resummerfield · Jan 15, 2006

Id go with the larger room in the basement, which could probably be made into a permanent darkroom. Remember, you can never have too large a darkroom! Tapping into an existing water supply is easy. If the sump pump discharges into a septic tank or sewer, use it. Otherwise, you would need to add a holding tank/sump pump to discharge into the house sewer system. Or, use the existing sump pump for just water (print washing, etc), and a separate, smaller holding tank for chems, to be disposed through the existing house sewer system.

Monophoto · Jan 15, 2006

I vote for the basement. More room, less intrusion on the rest of the family, and the ability to have permanent facilities.

Your supply pipes appear to be copper. They are relatively easy to tap - all it takes is a pipe cutter, torch, a few fittings and some solder. If you aren't ready to try it yourself, I suspect that you have a friend or neighbor who could do it for you.

I presume that your plan is to do traditional silver printing. You didn't indicate where the sump pump drains - does it go to an actual sewer, or does it simply run outside the house to a ditch or swale? Regardless, I suspect that using it as a darkroom drain is not a major problem - your volume is not likely to be excessive, and since the sump will receive mostly wash water and only a fairly small amount of chemical, it's not likely to do any environmental harm.

Darkroom chemicals generally won't cause permanent stains on porcelain. Developers are probably the most agressive stainers - and they can be cleaned up with a little hypochlorite bleach (ie, Chlorox). If your plumbing fixtures are acryllic or fiberglass you might want to be a little more careful to rinse everything down after use.

Jake · Jan 15, 2006

The sump pump drains straight to the outside of the house. The only concern about the larger room is the effort needed to tap into the water pipes, My father and I have no knowledge in the area of plumbing unfortunately. I was planning on using the sump pump as a drain for the washing process, so I don't have many worries about environmental damages.

glbeas · Jan 15, 2006

That downstairs room is a good bet. Go to Home Depot or Lowes or some other home supply store and get a book on plumbing. It will cover the basics on soldering copper pipe. You will do best to get some pipe and elbows and a torch with the necessary solder and pastes and play with it for a while before trying to cut into your house pipes. You'll find the technique is pretty simple and straightforward. You may even end up with a nice looking "pipe sculpture" to show off to your friends.

pentaxuser · Jan 15, 2006

A room with no windows is a big added advantage. I have converted a south facing bedroom and even in the UK and even with double glazing and with proper darkroom material which is permanently in place( doesn't have to be put up and taken down each time), I have difficulty cutting out all the light. On sunny days the heat penetrates through the double glazing and creates a radiator effect between the inside glass and the blackout material. This expands the material and can push it off the velcro despite it being placed on all four sides of the window.

glbeas · Jan 15, 2006

pentaxuser said:
A room with no windows is a big added advantage. I have converted a south facing bedroom and even in the UK and even with double glazing and with proper darkroom material which is permanently in place( doesn't have to be put up and taken down each time), I have difficulty cutting out all the light. On sunny days the heat penetrates through the double glazing and creates a radiator effect between the inside glass and the blackout material. This expands the material and can push it off the velcro despite it being placed on all four sides of the window.

I would recommend getting a styrofoam sheet cut to fit just inside the window frame to go under the blackout curtain to kill the heat problem. The kind construction crews use under siding has aluminum on one side and is even better. If you want to be extreme about it a piece of sheetrock cut to fit, with the edges taped for cleanliness, is the ultimate IR blocker.

David Brown · Jan 15, 2006

glbeas said:
That downstairs room is a good bet. ... get a book on plumbing. It will cover the basics on soldering copper pipe. ... You'll find the technique is pretty simple and straightforward. You may even end up with a nice looking "pipe sculpture" to show off to your friends.

I agree with the "use the basement" consensus, so far.

I would also add that doing your own plumbing for a darkroom is not a big deal - IF - you know or can learn what you're doing. Soldering copper pipe is easy. However, be cautioned, it is also easy to set something else on fire while doing it. I don't mean to be an alarmist, but any good plumber and any good plumbing book will warn you about this.

Ask around. Find some one who has actually done this and get them to teach you. Once you know how to do it, and take the right precautions, the fire danger is mitigated. (Or, hire a plumber - it might be worth it.)

Hope I didn't scare you off.

A lot of people work in bathrooms and a lot of us with permanent space did at one time. But, having dedicated space is no comparison. Go for it.

BTW - welcome to APUG from another drummer!

Cheers!

David

pentaxuser · Jan 15, 2006

glbeas said:
I would recommend getting a styrofoam sheet cut to fit just inside the window frame to go under the blackout curtain to kill the heat problem. The kind construction crews use under siding has aluminum on one side and is even better. If you want to be extreme about it a piece of sheetrock cut to fit, with the edges taped for cleanliness, is the ultimate IR blocker.

Thanks for the helpful suggestion but I should have added" even with a one inch styrofoam sheet, painted matt black". It certainly made a difference but didn't cure the problem entirely. It could just be that the velcro is losing its strength and needs replacing . The black out material is really quick heavy. If I had my time over again I think I'd go for a blackout blind similar to those advertised by Firstcall in the U.K. provided I could be sure it is foolproof. It would be nice to be able to have daylight when toning or doing anything not requiring blackout.

My wife would also prefer it if the darkroom could at least have the look of a normal bedroom from the outside when it wasn't in use. There's no satisfying them at times!

Pentaxuser

resummerfield · Jan 15, 2006

glbeas said:
I would recommend getting a styrofoam sheet cut to fit just inside the window frame to go under the blackout curtain to kill the heat problem. The kind construction crews use under siding has aluminum on one side and is even better......

Several years ago when I lived in the Mid-Atlantic states, I converted a bathroom with a skylight into a darkroom. I cut a foil-faced piece of stryofoam and mounted it firmly and tightly against the skylight interior. It did stop all light and I didnt think much about it until I moved about 3 years later. When I removed it, the skylight was permanently fogged between the two glasses (it was a sealed double-glazed thermopane unit). The factory rep said it was because of the heat that reflected back into the glass (it was very hot in the summer). If I were to do it again, I'd try and build a box-like structure around the outside of the window. Or if I used the foil-faced styrofoam on the inside, I would routinely remove it to check the glass.

Jim Noel · Jan 15, 2006

Use the large room

No soldering of copper required.

There are devices on the market which clamp around a copper pipe and you tightne a screw which wil puncutre and seal around the copper pipe. YOu may have to go to a good plumbing supplier to find them as I have not seen them in Home Depot.

Good lick,
\Jim

glbeas · Jan 15, 2006

Not so sure the crimp type will give you much of a flow rate. You get them for hooking the icemaker up on the fridge, and thats a really small diameter hose. If theres any big enough for a darkroom I've never seen one.

glbeas · Jan 15, 2006

pentaxuser said:
Thanks for the helpful suggestion but I should have added" even with a one inch styrofoam sheet, painted matt black". It certainly made a difference but didn't cure the problem entirely. It could just be that the velcro is losing its strength and needs replacing . The black out material is really quick heavy. If I had my time over again I think I'd go for a blackout blind similar to those advertised by Firstcall in the U.K. provided I could be sure it is foolproof. It would be nice to be able to have daylight when toning or doing anything not requiring blackout.

My wife would also prefer it if the darkroom could at least have the look of a normal bedroom from the outside when it wasn't in use. There's no satisfying them at times!

Pentaxuser

Have you tried aluminum foil? Best way to deal with heat is to not let it get inside in the first place.

grahamp · Jan 16, 2006

Use the bigger room that could be a permanent installation. You don't have to plumb water immediately. While it is nice to have a mains supply and proper drainage, I get by with tanks for clean and waste water. My serious washing is done in the laundry area.

A simple blackout is well worth the plumbing. At least you have the option to pump out waste already. I would not put spent fixer to surface waste, though.

Getting a professional plumber to put a couple of 'T's into the pipes with hand valves might be cost effective. You might need non-reversing valves too; depends on local code. It is to prevent noxious things getting into the main water supply.

Either location seems reasonable, and far better than some of the solutions I have used in the past!

Opinions wanted on darkroom choice

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