Opinions on a 3 or 4 lens 4x5 kit (landscape)

cirwin2010 · Dec 28, 2021

I'm working on building out a new 4x5 kit for landscape and I'm trying to decide what lenses to watch the market for. I'm thinking either of the following setups, but wanted people's opinions/experience.

Some details:
I think I decided on a 75mm over a 90mm given my most used focal length on digital (16mm aps-c) is similar. I also already purchased a Fujinon-A 240mm for its small size as I usually stick to the wide to normal focal lengths. But, when I do I want something longer, I want something with a little more reach hence my choice over a 210mm.

3 lens setup:
-75mm f/4.5-5.6
-135mm f/5.6 (maybe 150mm?)
-240mm f9.0

Pros:
-simpler and lower cost
-75mm and 135mm coincide with frequently used focal lengths on my other setups
Cons:
-Awkward gap between 135mm and 240mm?
--A 150mm would fill that gap better, but I worry it might be slightly tight for scenes where I like to include foreground

And alternative would be a 4 lens kit of the following:
-75mm f/4.5-5.6
-120mm f/5.6
-180mm f/5.6-f9.0
-240mm f9.0

Pros:
- ~1.5x spacing between each lens leaving no awkward gaps
-flexibility
Cons:
-More expensive and complex kit
-weight?
-I don't use longer lenses often so I worry I would have two infrequently used lenses (180 & 240)

madNbad · Dec 28, 2021

Since you have already decided on the 75 over the 90, start there. If the one lens is sufficient for your needs, stay with it. If you decide you really need another lens, then look at a 180 or a 210. That will give you enough reach as a short telephoto and is also a good length for portraits. It's more important for you to decide how the lens will be used and if you really need three lenses.

cirwin2010 · Dec 28, 2021

madNbad said:
Since you have already decided on the 75 over the 90, start there. If the one lens is sufficient for your needs, stay with it. If you decide you really need another lens, then look at a 180 or a 210. That will give you enough reach as a short telephoto and is also a good length for portraits. It's more important for you to decide how the lens will be used and if you really need three lenses.

My current monorail camera won't accept a 75mm. I'm on the wait list for a Chamonix 45f-2 so I'll probably get that lens last. Depending on which setup I got for I would probably get a 135mm or 120mm next to have a wide(er) angle lens.

I currently have a Kodak 6 3/8" lens on that monorail, but it's not going to be a part of my final kit. Not super sharp, inaccurate shutter, no coating, etc. Might keep it as a portrait lens.

Deleted member 88956 · Dec 28, 2021

If 75 is starting point I'd go 75/135)/210, but a lot depends on location characteristics. You are one to know whether 240 is more important to have that little extra reach or 210 will suffice. 120/135 provides such a small difference, I'd choose based on lens/brand/price/condition than focal length. You already know this kit won't cover a number of situations and lens' needs start to clear up as you approach shooting locations and learn from camera set up and framing needs. At times leg-zooming will make up for lack in bagged focal lengths, at times it will not.

wiltw · Dec 28, 2021

75mm is very wide...relative to 93mm frame height of 4x5 film holder, 75mm is to 93mm as 19mm is to 24mm (135 frame height)....an ultrawide
135mm is to 93mm frame height as 35mm is to 24mm frame height....a 'moderate wide'
240mm is to 93mm as 62mm is to 24mm...not very long, merely a 'long normal'

BrianShaw · Dec 28, 2021

Get a 5.6/135. Easily available, affordable, and slightly wider than your current lens. Use it and see if it meets your needs.

Huub · Dec 28, 2021

My first advise would be to give yourself time to decide which lens should be next, when you already have a 75mm and a 240mm. Shoot a while with it and then decide how they feel and what should come next. Your experiences shooting other formats is a nice starting point, but it is only a starting point. Because of the different feel of different camera systems, shooting habits might be different in other formats, Personally, when shooting 35mm i am mostly a wide angle person, when using 4x5 i often prefer the longer focal lengths.

My current set up for large format includes a 75mm, a 110mm, a 150mm and a 240mm lens and i am quite happy with the spacing of these lenses. When i would have to limit myself to a 3 lens set, i would replace the 110mm and the 150mm with a 135mm, but i always feel that the image circle of most 135mm's is pretty small and as i do quite a bit of interiors and architecture, which often asks for a lot of movements. In your 4 lens set up i feel that the 180mm and 240mm are pretty close to each other and that there is a lot of space between the 75mm and 120mm - a f8 105mm Fujinon or a 110mm Super Symmar XL might be a better choice.

Ian Grant · Dec 28, 2021

My main kit these days is a 75mm, 90mm, 150mm, and 210mm. I can add to that depending on where I'm planning to shoot. I also have a 65mm, 120mm, 135mm, 240,, 300mm and 360mm but then I also shoot 10x8 and sometimes 7x5 and.

Personally I'd find 75mm, 135mm, and 240mm, too far apart in terms of FL. Over the years my most used 5x4 lenses are my 90mm f6,8 Grandagon N and 150mm f5.6 Sironar N, I'm finding the 75mm f5.6 Super Angulon more useful than my older 65mm f8 Super Angulon.

Ian

Alan9940 · Dec 28, 2021

Another factor in lens choice is how far you expect to carry your outfit. When working near the car, I typically use my Arca-Swiss 4x5 with a selection of plasmat style lenses. But when hiking long distances, I carry a Toho 4x5 with 4 lightweight lenses ranging from 90mm to 300mm. Probably my most used lenses here are the Nikon 200M and 300M; not much of a wide angle guy myself.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 28, 2021

Good luck with your Chamonix. One suggestion I have is that whatever lenses you buy, make sure that you can use all with one set of filters with or without step-up adapters. (Your selection for 75mm at f4.5 sounds like a big lens) Also, consider if you need or want a center filter for the 75mm wide-angle. Some people find there's a falloff causing vignetting without the CF. A center filter also adds to the larger size of filters required.

BradS · Dec 28, 2021

After almost twenty years with large format, my 4x5 field kit contains only:
Rodenstock 90mm f/6.8 Grandagon-N
Rodenstock 150mm f/5.6 Sironar-N
Rodenstock 210mm f/6.3 Ysarex (Caltar type-Y)

I have a bunch of other lenses packed away in a box somewhere. They're just superfluous.

I'd strongly suggest keeping your field kit as small and simple as possible. Start with only a 150mm or 135mm and only add as absolutely needed. About 90% of my photos on 4x5 have been made with one of these two focal lengths...and I'm pretty sure that if necessary I could do 4x5 just fine with just the 150mm and a 210mm.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 28, 2021

I have both 90mm and 75mm as well s 150mm and 300mm. I actually like the wide look of the 75mm.
There was some cropping on the top and bottom of the tree sunset shot on the 75mm group
75mm on 4x5: https://www.flickr.com/search/?sort=date-taken-desc&safe_search=1&tags=75mm&user_id=55760757@N05&view_all=1
90mm on 4x5 https://www.flickr.com/search/?sort=date-taken-desc&safe_search=1&tags=90mm&user_id=55760757@N05&view_all=1
150mm on 4x5 https://www.flickr.com/search/?sort=date-taken-desc&safe_search=1&tags=150mm&user_id=55760757@N05&view_all=1
300mm on 4x5 https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/51329770992/in/album-72157715763486212/

abruzzi · Dec 28, 2021

Focal lengths are kind of personal--I lean long over wide for example. My current "preferred" kit is a 150/9 G Claron, a 100/6.3 WF Ektar, and a 203/7.7 Ektar. All three are tiny lenses too which helps (you'll notice that none are ƒ5.6 lenses.) If you want longer, but don't want to hassel with the huge Copal 3, I'd strongly reccomend the Fujinon 250/6.3. (the Fujinon 250/6.7 is also nice, but its prices have been driven up beyond the later models due to having generous enough coverage for 8x10 with movements. Unless you're going to shoot 8x10, go for the later CMW model.) The 250/6.3 is a bit heavy--its a plasmat with lots of glass--but its in a Copal 1 shutter which is very managable. I do have wider lenses than the 100 WF Ektar, but most modern wides are very bulky--even the small ƒ8 ones. Aside from the WF Ektar, the only other small wides are old designs--Angulon, Dagor, and a few less common designs. I'll occasionally use a SA 90/8 or Fujinon SW 105/8 but they're still bulky and when picking my kit I usually prefer small and light lenses. (strangely, for me, bulk is more important than weight. A few extra pounds in the camera bag won't kill me, but being unable to cleanly/easily fit what I need in the bag, and access it easily will cause no end of issues.)

jtk · Dec 28, 2021

Ektars are overlooked by hobbiests because they're rarely known of by hobby writers. Commercial Ektars blow away most Schneiders and usually have better shutters.
Just IMO of course

otto.f · Dec 28, 2021

cirwin2010 said:
1.5x spacing between each lens leaving no awkward gaps

I don’t think you can make that kind of reasoning, as wiltw showed in post #5. I also agree with Huub in #7; it is much more a question of discovering by experience than by computing in advance. I’m curious which camera you have, because the 75 is not very easy on quite a few 4x5 camera’s, especially if you want to correct oblique lines very much. I personally don’t go wider than 90, and see the 75 more as a special effects lens, which does not fit the idea of landscape photography in my view. But that depends very much on what you want to attain with your image style of course. Just a few thoughts.

Alex Benjamin · Dec 28, 2021

When I pre-scout locations I think I might want to photograph, I use a very useful app called Magic Film Viewfinder. There is a version for medium format and 4x5 (at least for Android). I have too many lenses, so I find very practical being able to compare in advance what a 75mm, 90mm or 135mm will give me. I suggest you download it on you phone and walk around comparing the view with different focal length. It'll also show you that choosing 4x5 lenses by trying to find the equivalent on 35mm or most medium format is a pretty useless exercice. There are all very different beasts.

cirwin2010 · Dec 28, 2021

otto.f said:
I don’t think you can make that kind of reasoning, as wiltw showed in post #5. I also agree with Huub in #7; it is much more a question of discovering by experience than by computing in advance. I’m curious which camera you have, because the 75 is not very easy on quite a few 4x5 camera’s, especially if you want to correct oblique lines very much. I personally don’t go wider than 90, and see the 75 more as a special effects lens, which does not fit the idea of landscape photography in my view. But that depends very much on what you want to attain with your image style of course. Just a few thoughts.

I'm waiting for my Chamonix 45f-2 before I get a wide angel lens. My current monorail camera would not support a 75mm.

I just did a little exercise a moment ago with my digital camera and RZ67 comparing focal lengths. The RZ67 has an aspect ratio very close to 4:5. The "equivalent" focal lengths on that camera I would think should give a pretty good idea of what I would be working with on 4x5. I tested the 50mm ULD lens I have for that camera (which I think should be close to 75mm on 4x5) and it feels similar enough to 16mm on my APS-C digital camera. The main difference between those two is the height of the frame (landscape orientation) where the RZ67 with 50mm has more vertical room.

That being said, I don't get to use my 50mm lens very often given that the RZ67 kit is pretty hard to carry around and the batteries limit me in cold weather. Plus the operation of B and T mode is pretty annoying even with the special, double cable release.

cirwin2010 · Dec 28, 2021

jtk said:
Ektars are overlooked by hobbiests because they're rarely known of by hobby writers. Commercial Ektars blow away most Schneiders and usually have better shutters.
Just IMO of course

I briefly looked into commercial Ektars for a longer lens, but I decided against it for a few reasons. I wanted something more modern for better coatings and I would think it would be easier to service the more modern/common Copal shutters. I also was running into some confusion if they would fit into standard Copal sized lens board holes. If there is a lens you think may be worth looking at for a medium to medium-wide, I'm happy to take suggestions.

Ian Grant · Dec 28, 2021

otto.f said:
I personally don’t go wider than 90, and see the 75 more as a special effects lens, which does not fit the idea of landscape photography in my view. But that depends very much on what you want to attain with your image style of course. Just a few thoughts.

I think it depends on the sorts of landscapes you make, I tend to work in often quite tight spaces and sometimes found a 90mm wasn't wide enough so bought a 65mm, it has allowed me to make images not otherwise possible, but I wouldn't call it special effects but used differently I guess it could be. It's just about how you use a lens, the 75mm is less of an issue, more main stream.

Ian

MARTIE · Dec 28, 2021

If you get the 90mm you'll always be 75mm curious. But if you go for the 75mm you'll probably never miss a 90mm.

cirwin2010 · Dec 28, 2021

MARTIE said:
If you get the 90mm you'll always be 75mm curious. But if you go for the 75mm you'll probably never miss a 90mm.

Can always crop a little too I suppose. I wouldn't think overall quality would be impacted at 16x20" enlargements or smaller if the lens is plenty sharp. TBD though.

abruzzi · Dec 28, 2021

jtk said:
Ektars are overlooked by hobbiests because they're rarely known of by hobby writers. Commercial Ektars blow away most Schneiders and usually have better shutters.
Just IMO of course

agree about the lenses, but many are in shutters like the Acme/Ilex shutters that aren’t nearly as accurate as a tuned Compur or Copal (in my experience.). With the exception of the WF Ektars, the other Ektars won’t have nearly the coverage of the plasmats from Schneider/Nikon/Rodenstock/Fuji, but they produce beautiful images. The 100mm WF Ektar and the 203mm Ektar are two of my favorites. I also have a 12” Commercial Ektar and a 190 WF Ektar, but I haven’t had much time with them yet.

jtk · Dec 28, 2021

A "well tuned" Compur or Copal" is not likely when bought used online. CLA is important either way...unless you're primarily using long exposures.

Craig75 · Dec 28, 2021

Personally I'd get the magic viewfinder app for Yr phone. Set it to 5x4 and take it into countryside and frame some shots up with it and see what focal lengths you get.

4 lenses for landscape seems a lot to me personally although everyone shoots differently.

Sirius Glass · Dec 28, 2021

75mm f/4.5-5.6
90mm f/4
120mm f/5.6
135mm f/4
180mm f/5.6-f9.0
240mm f/9.0

Opinions on a 3 or 4 lens 4x5 kit (landscape)

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