Opinions before I bid?????

Hello, long time listener first time poster. I am seeking opinions on an ebay listing for a Burke And James Commercial View 8x10. The camera looks to be in good shape, although I have one concern. The front extension "droops" when on the camera. I asked the seller if it is simply because the screw holding it on is not tight enough. He informed me that it is just old and droops like that all the time. I'm on a budget and the camera is at a decent price (starting bid is $300), but this issue is making me think twice about bidding. I would ideally like something that's ready to shoot "out of the box".
If I were to repair it, would it be a repair of the threaded hole in the main camera bed or would I need to repair the extension itself? Would buying a new extension solve the issue? Could I build a brace for it? Could I move the silver tripod block to use as a brace? I know the extension isn't completely necessary (correct?), but it would be nice to have. Attached are photos from the listing.
Opinions are very welcome, especially people who have owned this camera. Thanks in advance!

Looks to me like the piece that holds the screw is loose and could likely be repaired, however would like a better explanation from the seller. My guess is that if he has used the camera, he knows exactly what the problem is on the extension. I own an 8X10 B&J and it doesn't do this. I thhink you have a couple of screws that hold the tightening piece in place and they probably has gotten loose over the years. Sorry, I'm not at home today so I could not look at mine. Is the lens/shutter something you could live with? Bill Barber

Thanks Bill,
The only explanation from the seller is that it is in excellent condition and fully functional. He said it hasn't been used in a long time though, but it has been stored in a dry place.
As far as the lens, he said it has some separation. I think it would be a decent lens to get me started until I find an upgrade, but honestly I could take it or leave it.

BTW the lens is a Turner Reich Anastigmat 6.8

The Turners are nice - the one I got for my first (and probably last) 8x10, bought on Ebay was mangled with serious scratches and on top, had balsam separation. Eventually, since the Korona camera was a wreck (bad first experience with Ebay and LF cameras indeed) I gave away the lens. And despite its flaws, it makes magic even today in the hands of another photographer.

As an aside, I do wish I had asked the questions you do now ... all those years ago. Lesson learnt!

I agree with Bill. It 'probably' is a fairly easy repair.

You will find the original color was Gray. Its in this catalog http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/bj_1.html . Someone has refinished it. The standards are on the base backwards. If you are good at wood working it should be a fairly easy repair.

You may find this interesting http://www.largeformatphotography.info/burke-james/restore8x10.html

Some of these LF cameras have a rod that goes on the top of the camera from back to front and a couple of places on the bellows along it's length for it to slip into to eliminate "old droopy bellows" syndrome. I would think something like that would be easy to fabricate on a DIY project.

The front standard droop....if you're lucky, that big thumb screw that has the 2 loose screws on it's mount can be tightened down to pull it up straight. It seems a little precarious if that is all that holds it up, but if you look at this similar camera below, that's the way they designed it. And yes, that standard is on backwards, as can be seen on the camera below. Good catch. But I think the standard itself is fine, it's the bottom mount that is on backwards, which should be a quick remedy. Nice looking bellows on the camera.

Even though they've been building LF cameras like this for over 100 years, I find it to be a dodgy bit of design. My preference, especially on a big camera, would be for something w/ a better bed design, like the camera on the bottom link. It adds weight but you get more stability, and a little extra weight is hardly an issue w/ 8x10 I would think. 8x10 film is expensive. I'd want a more vibration proof bed, but that's just me. I'm sure it would work fine once you get it snugged down, it just irritates the engineering side of me. But then that's the motto w/ LF it seems....Caution, LF shooter, easily irritated!

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/burke-james/restore8x10.html

http://collectiblend.com/Cameras/Graflex/Reversible-Back-Cycle-Graphic.html

It doesn't look like the screws holding the plate to the base are loose but that the long screw that holds
both pieces together isn't/doesn't/won't tighten.
"they all do that" is BS.

OK, since I'm not going to bid here's what I'd do. I put a lot of thought into this already because I almost bid.

What you do depends on one thing: the step between the tracks on the two sections, which needs to be exactly the space between two teeth on the focusing rack. If the hinge holes are enlarged allowing the hinge to slip, then there will be a rough transition over the gap for the focusing gear because the gap between the teeth will be enlarged. If that's the case, you'd need to remove the most likely set of hinge screws (probably loose--I'd tighten all of them first, before doing anything else) plug the screw holes and re drill for the screws at the back of the old holes, drawing the hinge back a bit and two tracks tighter together. If this was the problem, then the gear will slip gracefully between the two sections.

The easier problem is if the wood has shrunk. I'd figure this out by shimming under the track between the sections at the bottom side (not the top, near the hinge) until the track is straight, without the connecting screw tightened. If it's a wood shrinkage problem, then probably the gear's transition will be easy, once you've shimmed the track up, and that's how I'd fix the problem--with a simple shimming of the end of one of the tracks.

It's also possible that both problems could exist.

This probably doesn't have anything to do with the screw that holds the sections together unless the hinge is shot. Only if the hinge is worn would the track drop like that, and a worn hinge is highly unlikely. The tracks should sit level with each other before that screw is even tightened, if everything is as it should be.

In any case, it's not a difficult repair if you approach it logically, and don't get carried away fixing things that aren't broken, previous to actually figuring out what the problem is.

shutterfinger said:

You will find the original color was Gray. Its in this catalog http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/bj_1.html . Someone has refinished it. The standards are on the base backwards. If you are good at wood working it should be a fairly easy repair.

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I was wondering if it had been refinished, because the only B&J I've seen that has a natural finish is the Portrait model. And I hadn't even noticed that the standards are on backwards. Are the standards fairly easy to take on and replace? Is it just a matter of unscrewing a couple of screws?

mdarnton said:

OK, since I'm not going to bid here's what I'd do. I put a lot of thought into this already because I almost bid.

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Thank you mdarton! Lol.
I'm kind of leaning toward just waiting for another 8x10 to come along. As a full time college student with a part time job, this is a relatively large investment for me and I want to get something that I am happy with while at the same time staying within my budget. I'm not the best at fixing things and I would be bummed if I screwed something up (no pun intended) and ruin something, after spending a good deal of money on it.
Again, I appreciate all of the feedback everyone!

All right. I just took another look. I am wrong. I thought the drooping part was the hinged end. It's the extension. That's just a loose screw, or broken screw, or something similar. I could be rust on the facing surfaces. John K is right. I am wrong....... my bad.

Something "ready to shoot out of the box" generally doesn't cost 300 bucks--generally there is another digit in front of nice cameras.

This camera has a lens and filmholder and a couple of issues that can be worked around or fixed--buy it as a beater and treat it like a beater--fix the sag with duck tape to get it to work if you want. You'd be able to sell it for the same amount to someone who is also looking for a "fixer upper" because they can't afford a nice camera.

If you want a nice camera, you'll have to save your pennies and buy a nice camera for the price of a nice camera. Or you can just clunk someone over the head while he's under the dark cloth and run off with a nice one.

Wait--buy this one--use it to make just ONE million dollar art piece--sell that, and problem solved.....but then again, if you do that, then all the hipstas will only want to buy a beater ducktape camera and the price of the good cameras will drop as a result--so you can, in fact, get that nice camera for 300 bucks IF you buy this one and everything goes right!

"...excellent condition andfully functional. He said it hasn't been usedin a long time..."

I've had more bad luck than good luck with that kind of description on eBay. I stay away (from bad experience) from all auctions with that have vague notions of "has not been used in a while", "I'm no camera expert", "as far as I know...". There nothing electronic here. He can either tell you definitely that all movements and such work or they don't, with five minutes of inspection himself. Personally I'd stay away. Go LFF or even here and post a WTB, you'll likely get a better deal and more honest assessment.

"He informed me that it is just old and droops like that all the time." That would probably scare me off. For one thing, it would bother me that he's not being completely honest. He knows why the extension isn't straight; but, he's not willing to share that with you.

I suspect that the front extension receiving threads in the main block are no longer properly seated, and further tightening just pulls them tighter into the back of the extension, versus pulling the extension tighter onto the main camera block. Notice how the metal near the thumb screw on the front extension is bent. No matter how tight the thumbscrew, the front extension is still loose. If this assessment is correct, buying a new extension won't solve the problem.

On the other hand, it's a nice enough looking camera. For me, the main question would be about the bellows: are they light tight, do they have taped corners, or do they have pinholes? Etc. (Remember, he's not being completely honest with you.) To continue, if the bellows are good, fixing the droop is likely a matter of repairing or replacing the receiving thread on the camera's main block. I would go to a hardware store to see what may be available to replace this threaded hole. Perhaps the threaded hole can be repaired by using longer screws to hold it to the main block. If not, you would know whether or not it can be replaced.

Does he have a return policy? (Probably not.) If so, it might be worth shipping both ways to assess the fix yourself. If it's too unmanageable, return the camera.

johnielvis said:

Something "ready to shoot out of the box" generally doesn't cost 300 bucks--generally there is another digit in front of nice cameras.

This camera has a lens and filmholder and a couple of issues that can be worked around or fixed--buy it as a beater and treat it like a beater--fix the sag with duck tape to get it to work if you want. You'd be able to sell it for the same amount to someone who is also looking for a "fixer upper" because they can't afford a nice camera.

If you want a nice camera, you'll have to save your pennies and buy a nice camera for the price of a nice camera. Or you can just clunk someone over the head while he's under the dark cloth and run off with a nice one.

Wait--buy this one--use it to make just ONE million dollar art piece--sell that, and problem solved.....but then again, if you do that, then all the hipstas will only want to buy a beater ducktape camera and the price of the good cameras will drop as a result--so you can, in fact, get that nice camera for 300 bucks IF you buy this one and everything goes right!

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Yea I guess I should clarify, I'm just looking for something that doesn't need any large repairs for it to be functioning. Being a student on a pretty limiting budget makes that difficult. "Nice" is definitely a subjective term. Clunking someone over the head doesn't sound like such a bad idea after all

Neil Poulsen said:

"He informed me that it is just old and droops like that all the time." That would probably scare me off. For one thing, it would bother me that he's not being completely honest. He knows why the extension isn't straight; but, he's not willing to share that with you.

I suspect that the front extension receiving threads in the main block are no longer properly seated, and further tightening just pulls them tighter into the back of the extension, versus pulling the extension tighter onto the main camera block. Notice how the metal near the thumb screw on the front extension is bent. No matter how tight the thumbscrew, the front extension is still loose. If this assessment is correct, buying a new extension won't solve the problem.

On the other hand, it's a nice enough looking camera. For me, the main question would be about the bellows: are they light tight, do they have taped corners, or do they have pinholes? Etc. (Remember, he's not being completely honest with you.) To continue, if the bellows are good, fixing the droop is likely a matter of repairing or replacing the receiving thread on the camera's main block. I would go to a hardware store to see what may be available to replace this threaded hole. Perhaps the threaded hole can be repaired by using longer screws to hold it to the main block. If not, you would know whether or not it can be replaced.

Does he have a return policy? (Probably not.) If so, it might be worth shipping both ways to assess the fix yourself. If it's too unmanageable, return the camera.

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I had that same idea about checking it out myself once it got here, but unfortunately there is no return policy on this auction.

I greatly appreciate all of the insight and replies from this post, it has been very helpful. For the time being I am probably going to go the route Richard S. suggested and just keep my eyes peeled on here and LFF.

A few months back I got a well-used Kodak 2d 8x10 that worked right out of the box for 225.00, and it came with the extension rail and a 7x11 back as well. Got a lens for about 80.00. Even in the category "battered user 8x10 camera/lens on ePay in 2016" there are better deals that may be more functional than this.

One thing in this class of camera -- the "battered user but still functional LF on e*ay" class -- that makes a difference is, does it have a case? A battered, useless case that can't even be picked up by its handle will still protect the camera, and provide a place to put all the bits and bobs that came with the outfit. The cheapest cased camera is frequently a good one to take a flyer on, if you can't get one from one of the enthusiast forums at your price point.

nosmok said:

A few months back I got a well-used Kodak 2d 8x10 that worked right out of the box for 225.00, and it came with the extension rail and a 7x11 back as well. Got a lens for about 80.00. Even in the category "battered user 8x10 camera/lens on ePay in 2016" there are better deals that may be more functional than this.

One thing in this class of camera -- the "battered user but still functional LF on e*ay" class -- that makes a difference is, does it have a case? A battered, useless case that can't even be picked up by its handle will still protect the camera, and provide a place to put all the bits and bobs that came with the outfit. The cheapest cased camera is frequently a good one to take a flyer on, if you can't get one from one of the enthusiast forums at your price point.

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That sounds like a pretty sweet deal! I'd love to find a camera like that.