Opinion of artists' work based on their personal life

Daniela · Feb 24, 2017

Ten years ago, I had the chance to live in Paris for almost 2 years. It was a beautiful time and incredibly inspiring (unfortunately I had given up photography at that time...great timing!). One night, walking back home, I found this exhibition poster stuck to a store window and took it. It's a beautiful soft portrait of a young woman, with one of her breasts exposed. I've carried this poster with me for 10 years and 3 moves. Just like week, I found it while unpacking after yet another move, and I thought it was just what I needed for my little studio's wall. But then I noticed the photographer's name and my heart sunk. David Hamilton. I now feel very differently about this poster. While I realize that the sexual abuse accusations brought against him were not legally proven, I can't help looking at that image and wonder if I'm being witness to abuse.
Have you had similar experiences? Does your appreciation of an artist's work change based on what you learn about their private life; how the artwork was created or what may have been going on behind the scenes?

Bob Carnie · Feb 24, 2017

Fantastic question , yes I do like to find out as much as I can about my photographer clients before I start working with them.

Pete Myers · Feb 24, 2017

I do think ethics matter in art. Any photographer that is basing his/her professional work as a front for unprofessional behavior and is opportunistic seems to demote any accomplishment that they may have gained through the work.

That said, there isn't an artist that hasn't had a complex life. Read Adams' sanitized autobiography, then Mary Alinder's biography and you have a sense of two different people. Or read "Through Another Lens: My Years with Edward Weston" by Charis Wilson and Wendy Madar. Charis was 20 when she met Weston, and he was 48. The age difference seemed to indicate some form of exploitation, but then again viewed through Charis, it was not. Did she help open up a path for some of his greatest works? It would seem so. Are we to judge or envy?

It is a great question. Like most things in life, the answers are not simple, and there really is no way to get at the full truth. Therefore, it just "is."

Pete

Gerald C Koch · Feb 24, 2017

Unfortunately the accusations against the photographer mentioned in the post make it almost impossible to answer the question in an unbiased manner. In addition the choice of this photographer makes any discussion almost unidimensional. I confess of knowing little about him other than what is usually mentioned. Now had he been Mapplethorpe, Caravaggio or Cellini the discussion might be more interesting. These three artists were accused of some rather disagreeable things. Then there is the case of Richard Wagner a rabid anti-Semite who wrote some divine music. He even turned on one of his most fervent supporters, the composer Giacomo Meyerbeer, because he was a Jew. On the other side there is John Dugdale a legally blind photographer who has overcome his misfortune to continue his career.

Which brings me to my answer. I believe that we would prefer to judge most artists on the basis of their work rather than their lives.

LAG · Feb 24, 2017

Daniela said:
Have you had similar experiences?

Yes, I have

Daniela said:
Does your appreciation of an artist's work change based on what you learn about their private life; how the artwork was created or what may have been going on behind the scenes?

I believe that you have answered yourself Daniela

Daniela said:
... I now feel very differently about this ...

And to my way of thinking I feel more or less the same yes.

The appreciation changes of course, by the inevitable addition of complementary information, however not always that deviation goes on the same side, some are positive or for better, some others for worse.

In this case of (there was a url link here which no longer exists) here is my post about him, perhaps can give you a better idea of my thinking:

"When an author happens to be more important than his work, they cease to interest me both.

When the purity (of the photographed and / or the work itself) is broken is because the author has not been able to see when the use becomes abuse.

When Photography (or part of it) is infected or affected in some way, I act with serious rejection and take some distance to any serious conclusion on the subject, but only with the photographic interest in the background. And in this case that background leads me to first thought!"

Regards!

Ko.Fe. · Feb 24, 2017

I would not have any picture with content which might lead to some questions from my wife and I'm not interested in "tits on the wall" anyway. Most of photographers books I have are nothing but street photography.

I have books on Soviet Photography history as well where some photos where taken in GULAG operated construction camps. Photos taken where are not false propaganda about prisoners, but documentary of the construction.

removed account4 · Feb 24, 2017

Bob Carnie said:
Fantastic question , yes I do like to find out as much as I can about my photographer clients before I start working with them.

+1

and i try not to purchase or otherwise fund/advertise/ pr &c things i'm not "fond" of ...
( kind of like the apartheid /divest movement from the 80s ...

Bob Carnie · Feb 24, 2017

To this day I have not seen prints as good as Joel Peter Witkins show I saw in the early 90's at Tator Alexander Gallery in Toronto. Subject matter was/is extreme but the prints were magnificent.
not sure how this relates to the question but it is another direction.

Wayne · Feb 24, 2017

Yes it matters, Bob's example (I wont even say his name) being an extreme illustration of the point. I wont shy away just because some Puritan objects to work, but there is definitely a line for me. No point in trying to describe where the line is because it will be different for everyone who has a line, but If I think abuse or violence or disrespect has taken place I won't touch it.

Bob Carnie · Feb 25, 2017

Fair enough Wayne, there are many people who feel the way you do about JPW and thats ok by me.

Here is a Pet Peeve of mine and it will touch home on this forum as I actually know many practice this type of photography.

Its when a group of photographers, mainly men, hire young , possibly vulnerable female models to photograph nude,,,, I cannot tell you how much this creeps me out and I do have a much lesser
opinion of these photographers that do this.

Somehow I cannot see how they justify this behaviour. This type of photography has no place in my professional existence and it is so common, and practiced by people that should know better. I think this really touches on what the OP is asking.

pdeeh · Feb 25, 2017

Gosh I hadn't ever heard of witkin before the post above. Fascinating work.

As regards the op question, i have to say I went right off that Hitler chap once I saw what a rotten painter he was.

Wayne · Feb 25, 2017

pdeeh said:
Gosh I hadn't ever heard of witkin before the post above. .

And rightfully so...

pdeeh · Feb 25, 2017

Your line is showing

Wayne · Feb 25, 2017

Yours too.

pdeeh · Feb 25, 2017

Yeah, but is it a line in the sand, a white line (don't do it), a red line, or even a thin blue line?

Daniela · Feb 25, 2017

Speaking of lines... I found a documentary on Witkins on youtube. One of the first things he says is a story about a dead woman in Mexico. How the Dr tells him to photograph her and he says he can't do it, because she just died and her relatives are outside crying. He just couldn't do that. I can't say I understand his logic, but yes...blurry lines....we all have them
I wish I could see the rest, but only the first 30 minutes are available. Here's the link if you're interested:

CMoore · Mar 4, 2017

As the old saying goes....."You would never want to meet your heroes".
Whether they are:
Rock Stars
Movie Stars
Sports Stars
Photographers
Etc etc etc
There is a good chance you will be disappointed.

cowanw · Mar 4, 2017

I dislike how Stieglitz treated most of the people he knew Especially his first wife and daughter and Clarence White and the painters he represented. Don''t think much of his work either.

CMoore · Mar 4, 2017

cowanw said:
I dislike how Stieglitz treated most of the people he knew Especially his first wife and daughter and Clarence White and the painters he represented. Don''t think much of his work either.

Yeah, no kidding.....there was a Mediocre Human Being if there ever was one.

removed account4 · Mar 5, 2017

CMoore said:
As the old saying goes....."You would never want to meet your heroes".
Whether they are:
Rock Stars
Movie Stars
Sports Stars
Photographers
Etc etc etc
There is a good chance you will be disappointed.

i met some of these folks and some have been really nice and kept things real
but have met others who have not been, most haven't let things go to their heads..

Skiver101 · Mar 5, 2017

''One night, walking back home, I found this exhibition poster stuck to a store window and took it''

Could you tell us more about the circumstances here ?
Did you have the moral right to do this ?
Was that an ethical thing to do ?

Sounds like you took something that didn't belong to you ...or am I wrong ?
Do tell...

blockend · Mar 5, 2017

I find Miroslav Tichy's work fascinating. Not for the subject matter (mostly candid shots of young women) nor any erotic content (it's pretty coy stuff though undoubtedly intrusive), but the throwaway aesthetics of his prints and his home made camera. Grinding your own lenses out of plastic using cigarette ash, and making a shutter from rubber bands requires a commitment beyond most of us. And the prints are truly strange, like freeze frames from a dream.
https://www.artsy.net/artist/miroslav-tichy#!

Daniela · Mar 6, 2017

Skiver101 said:
''One night, walking back home, I found this exhibition poster stuck to a store window and took it''

Could you tell us more about the circumstances here ?
Did you have the moral right to do this ?
Was that an ethical thing to do ?

Sounds like you took something that didn't belong to you ...or am I wrong ?
Do tell...

Touché!

Daniela · Mar 6, 2017

blockend said:
I find Miroslav Tichy's work fascinating. Not for the subject matter (mostly candid shots of young women) nor any erotic content (it's pretty coy stuff though undoubtedly intrusive), but the throwaway aesthetics of his prints and his home made camera. Grinding your own lenses out of plastic using cigarette ash, and making a shutter from rubber bands requires a commitment beyond most of us. And the prints are truly strange, like freeze frames from a dream.
https://www.artsy.net/artist/miroslav-tichy#!

I'd never heard of him until now. I find his work fascinating too. I've only read a bit about him and seen some photographs, but I see why people would feel conflicted about his work.

cliveh · Mar 6, 2017

Daniela said:
Have you had similar experiences? Does your appreciation of an artist's work change based on what you learn about their private life; how the artwork was created or what may have been going on behind the scenes?

As others have said, a very good question. I would suggest that in viewing the work without knowledge of the artists life gives more of a true reaction to the art. For instance if you viewed a painting with no knowledge of who the artist was and you liked it, but then found it was painted by Adolf Hitler, how can that cancel out your initial reaction to the image?

Opinion of artists' work based on their personal life

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