OPINION: Mamiya C220 to start collection

Poisson Du Jour · Apr 18, 2010

This particularly well-kept Mamiya C220 has come to my attention lately.
I am considering this as both a working camera and a start to a collection of several other cameras (35mm and MF). One thing that I find strange is that the sale price is listed in GBP rather than Euro (for the seller's location in Germany). Consequently, the price seems very high. Opinions from APUG members regarding optics are welcome.

Thanks!

fschifano · Apr 18, 2010

It's a great camera. I have two and I really like them. That's a very good lens on that camera too. But that's $450 USD, very high for one of these cameras in the US. For not much more, you can get a similarly equipped Hasselblad in similar condition here. For less, you can get a Mamiya RB67. And this auction has 9 days to go yet! Guaranteed, the price will ratchet up. Nice camera, but I think you can do better on the price.

Poisson Du Jour · Apr 18, 2010

Yes, the price is a big concern at the moment; I suspect he's using GBP to 'up' the financial return compared to the Euro, which is a little more favourable.
My main interest though is in optical performance as I'd be running 120 tranny stock to Ilfochrome process.

fschifano · Apr 18, 2010

The black 80 mm lens fitted to the camera, and indeed almost all the lenses for that camera, are stellar performers. Some quibble about the 55 mm lens, and maybe it's not the best there is in something around that focal length for that format; but even the 55 is, at least, a good lens. I don't think you'll find the kit as advertised to be lacking in any way. But like I said, it's a lot of money for what it is. Shop around, and you'll likely be able to get get more camera for less money

wotalegend · Apr 18, 2010

Hi Gary,

I don't own, and have never owned, a C220. But FWIW I do own a M645 and in my opinion you would not have too much to complain about if the 2.8/80 on the C220 is similar to, or maybe even optically the same as, the 2.8/80 in M645 form.

As far as price is concerned, I have had an auto watch on eBay prices of M645 gear for several months and I have noticed that items listed on eBay Germany in particular usually have unrealistically high starting prices. Maybe there are local factors inflating the market in Germany (taxes, import duty, etc?). Having said that, I always use KEH prices as a benchmark. I have looked at C220 prices on KEH this morning and they seem to be asking USD400-450 for C220's in EX condition. USD450 = GBP294.26 on the Google currency converter today, so the starting price is not all that far off, provided it doesn't go too much higher. I promise I won't bid against you

Cheers, Peter.

Poisson Du Jour · Apr 18, 2010

Hi Peter,
I too have been looking at KEH and have found quite a number of C220 bodies only and bodies+lens combos, in various condition, and their prices compared to the German eBay seller are raising my suspicions that the eBay item is unrealistically pitched at the moment, even for an excellent specimen. Maybe I'll wait it out until he reduces the price (probably won't happen) or if it doesn't sell, maybe he'll re-list at a lower price. In either case, why he is listing in GBP and not the Euro (which I am accustomed to when dealing with German suppliers) is the sticking point.

Insofar as other cameras, I'm not really interested in latter models; I'm after something from the 60s-70s era for a start, and definitely not a Hassie (maybe in time).

Of course you wouldn't bid against me. If you did, I'd send 'Brutus' out!!

tac · Apr 18, 2010

I have a 330, an rz, and several mamiya 35mm's; great cameras, great optics

That said, this is too much to pay for a 220 and 80, regardless of condition; keep looking around.

MattKing · Apr 18, 2010

Garyh:

If you are interested in more reasonable price for a C220 with a blue dot 80mm lens, email me.

(I would send you a pm, if you were accepting them).

mgb74 · Apr 19, 2010

While it appears to be in pristine condition, the price does seem very high. I'm sure the seller expects a premium for what appears to be a virtually unused camera. Of course, if you use it - especially in the field - it might not look so pristine after a while. I've been quite please with a 80mm "blue dot" Mamiya lens I have. I don't think you'll find inherent lens quality an issue.

I assume you're aware that the C220 requires that you cock the shutter manually (it does not cock with the film advance as the C330 does). This also makes the camera a bit lighter.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Apr 19, 2010

The Mamiya C series is not in my opinion a "collector" camera. In other words, the design, though functional and original, is neither drop-dead gorgeous like a Leica/Rollei/Hassy/Nikon F/etc., nor uber-quirky like a Kodak Ektra.

C-series are workhoses, well made, solid, practical, useful, and able to deliver quality at a fraction of the price. That's why they were in production for so long. Like an RB67, they were made to be used, looks were secondary, and there's no great story behind them (in this respect, I find a Kiev II rangefinder much more "collectable"!)

There's no point in getting a pristine C220 or C330 (I prefer the 330 for its automation), and your money would be better spent on a full kit rather than a shiny one.

Ian Grant · Apr 19, 2010

That's over priced for a C220 in the UK, but it does appear to be in excellent condition.

The C33 while older has the same functionality as the C330 and is another excellent model, they sell for about £100=£120 with an 80mm Sekor.

Ian

climbabout · Apr 19, 2010

Mamiya C220 value

I recently sold my beloved Mamiya C220 with 80mm lens which was in very nice condition (not pristine) for 142.50 USD on the big auction site. I thought that was a very fair price. It included the original boxes, owners manual and an old grip. I bought this camera and lens new in 1977 from a dealer in NY city for 232.00$,(my first professional camera), used it professionally for about 10 years and then very sporadically since. It didn't owe me a dime and served me very well. The price for the one you saw, (while it is a pristine example) is way, way too high. As previous posters pointed out - these are not collectible cameras , but very good workhorses.
Tim

darinwc · Apr 19, 2010

First off, if you want to collect something, your money is better spent on something that is currently desired by collectors.
A Leica or classic rangefinder would fit the bill. Or if you wanted to stick with a TLR, a Rolleiflex in that price range would be perfect.

Now if you want to put together a kit of lenses, the Mamiya C TLR's offer a great values.

Just make a decision if you want a camera to use or to sit on a shelf, because they are mutually exclusive.

benjiboy · Apr 19, 2010

fschifano said:
The black 80 mm lens fitted to the camera, and indeed almost all the lenses for that camera, are stellar performers. Some quibble about the 55 mm lens, and maybe it's not the best there is in something around that focal length for that format; but even the 55 is, at least, a good lens. I don't think you'll find the kit as advertised to be lacking in any way. But like I said, it's a lot of money for what it is. Shop around, and you'll likely be able to get get more camera for less money

I have two Mamiya TLRs and a set of lenses I've used them for about twenty years the 55mm W/A lenses are indeed of variable quality some are excellent and some are average,but I must have been lucky, the rest of the lenses are excellent Mamiya used to claim that every 24x36 mm section of the negs. with this system will enlarge to 20"X16". I don't think I would buy into the system to collect, I don't think it will ever appreciate in value but to use because it's a workhorse that is utterly reliable and if you want to shoot slides mine provides me with stunning slides on Fuji Velvia that I project on a 50"x50" screen that put my 35mm slides to shame

Poisson Du Jour · Apr 19, 2010

Benjiboy, it certainly would be used to shoot trannies, hence my interest in optical performance. Speaking of which, what is this 'blue dot' that is often mentioned? I agree there is a blue dot visible on the eBay pictures on the shutter cock, for what it's worth, is this a set-off for something about the lens that others do not have?

There will be nothing fancy about the collection I am starting: other cameras are Canon's T90, Olympus OM4, OM1N, Nikon F3HP to name four on my list. I have used all of these since 1979, and at some stage I actually did use a TLR in my studies in the early 1990s, though what relevance that had to Art Theory II I have no idea.

At the moment I'm just making passing glances at that German buyer, having taken all comments on board regarding his price. Focus (ahem, sorry for the pun) now shifting to KEH... Gotta go now, client briefing coming up and time to shine!

fschifano · Apr 19, 2010

Nothing special about the "blue dot" lenses except that they are just later versions of the black (as opposed to the earlier chrome) versions of the lenses. As far as I know, there is no substantial difference in the mechanical or optical qualities of all the black lens sets. The blue dot on the cocking lever may have some significance to a collector, but no practical difference to the user. I wouldn't pay a premium for it; but then I buy equipment to use it, not to have it sit on a shelf as a show piece.

Mackinaw · Apr 19, 2010

fschifano said:
Nothing special about the "blue dot" lenses except that they are just later versions of the black (as opposed to the earlier chrome) versions of the lenses.....

Agreed. For those who equate newer with better, go for the blue dot lenses.

As for the Mamiya TLR lenses, I consider the 135mm and 65mm to be excellent (the 135mm may actually be too sharp if you're into portraits), the 105mm to be pretty good, and the 80mm "blue dot" to be fair. My 80mm is pretty soft wide-open.

Jim B.

clayne · Apr 19, 2010

Blue-dot doesn't really mean much. It's literally just an insert in the shutter mechanics. People believe it signifies something - but I say it's BS. I have a C-330 w/ 80/2.8 (also with the blue-dot) and that C-220 you're looking at is way too expense.

benjiboy · Apr 20, 2010

Some of the later black lenses were multi- coated Dead Link Removed but I don't know which either.

grahamp · Apr 20, 2010

There's a difference in the Seiko shutters (clickstop apertures and repair possibilities from Mamiya and agents) that the blue insert may indicate. Though it is just an insert in the cocking lever, so it is not a 100% certain guide.

I wouldn't collect anything for the value. That is what the Stock Exchange is for...

The only real candidate for multi-coating is the 80mm S. Maybe the late 180mm Supers. I have never seen good documentary evidence, but I have amassed a lot of opinions over the years

FM2N · Apr 20, 2010

Sorry to bother you but unable to send private message. Please check classified section. I would be willing to ship to your location.
Arthur

Poisson Du Jour · Apr 22, 2010

FM2N: haven't got the world of APUG in my contacts...
Have deferred purchase for now while getting more Ilfochromes framed for gallery (3x the amount of that Mamiya...).

seankol · Apr 26, 2010

mamiya c220 kit

I have a mamiya c220 kit with 55mm, 80mm and 180mm lenses that I had on ebay. I unfortunately didn't receive 1 bid! It's in great nick but I just don't use it anymore so it would be nice to see it go to a good home.
Sean

OPINION: Mamiya C220 to start collection

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Poisson Du Jour

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Poisson Du Jour

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OPINION: Mamiya C220 to start collection

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