Oops.

Sportera · Apr 5, 2006

Yesterday, on my way out of New Orleans, I decided to travel to my daughter's school. My intent was to find her desk in her classroom and photograph it.

I drive 45 minutes through morning traffic, walked through the muck and mud, found the desk. Studied the scene an planned where the best angle would be.

Then I opened my back pack to get out the 4x5 then discoved I forgot the quick release plate on another camera! I'm standing in a dimly lit class room, swearing and cussing. I packed my gear up and started back to the truck.

What made me stop I don't know, but something in my head reminded me that I had a 35mm with me too. So I went back. Can't say if they are keepers yet, I have yet to develope the films, but I am excited. I spent 2 hours walking from class room to class room. I had gone to school there and my little girl was in second grade there too. The emotions were almost overwhelming to see the little back packs and crayon boxes scattered about. One child's back pack stood at the entrance of the class room packed and ready. I found all sorts of emotional compositions.

Have you ever had a oops? Did it work out in the end?

JosBurke · Apr 5, 2006

I have the same idea and intend to undertake a similar project here before the season is out--I'll likely take my Linhof 4x5 But I'll take my Mamiya 7II as a backup---actually the Mamiya makes for some pretty impressive results--noy LF but not too far down the ladder--I'll likely use tri-X in the 4x5 and Delta 400 in the Mamiya !! He has a Very cooperative teacher--maybe I can go even bigger in format but DOF will be an issue !!

joeyk49 · Apr 5, 2006

Oops. I've forgotten my cable release on at least three separate occasions...I think I'm going to put an extra in the car, so that I have a back up.

Not quite the same; 35 v. LF...

Because I bulk load my 35mm stuff and I can't set my film speed manually on my Minolta auto, I have to adjust the exposure compensation accordingly. I had the camera set to +1 stop for shooting my PanF. Swithed to Delta400 and forgot to change the exposure comp...Luckily, I saw it, when I removed the Delta, so that I could mark the roll shot as WAY overexposed. Now I just have to figure out if I can save the roll through adjusted developement.

Delta400 @ 50...We'll see what happens...Oops :rolleyes:

User Removed · Apr 5, 2006

A perfect example of why you should not be using quick release tripod heads, especially for large format cameras!

bill schwab · Apr 5, 2006

Sportera said:
Have you ever had a oops? Did it work out in the end?

Bummer!

My life is a series of luckily placed "oops" events! They always seem to work out for the best... except once when I backed my car over my gear bag. Ouch!

So far, so good.

Bill

mark · Apr 5, 2006

Sportera,
My life is one big oops after another: forgot the film holders, forgot the film, packed along a bag full of film holders and no camera. The list goes on and on, but the worst oops was not zipping up the camera bag, throwing it over my shoulder and launching my 5x7 across the room to hang itself, impaled through the ground glass on the back of a bar stool.

I can't remember the guy's name but quite a few years ago a guy took a lot of LF photos in a kindergarten classroom in low light with no tripod. He just set the camera down on stuff the settle it. Truely unique images as they were from pretty close to student perspective. Might be a thought. Otherwise get more quick release plates. I have one on each of my cameras below 5x7. My tripod head for over 5x7 is not a quick release kind but that will be changing.

mark · Apr 5, 2006

Ryan McIntosh said:
A perfect example of why you should not be using quick release tripod heads, especially for large format cameras!

Please explain this statement Ryan. My experience, and those professionals whose advice I followed when setting up my system, is completely opposite from your statement.

naturephoto1 · Apr 5, 2006

I agree with Mark for all my formats 35mm up to 4"x 5". I feel much more comfortable and a bit less concerned about dropping the equipment. However, I have the remnant of 2 broken wrists from a bicycle accident. I am always concerned about dropping heavy and expensive items if I should ever wince in pain.

Rich

TheFlyingCamera · Apr 5, 2006

Mark- quick-release plates are ok up to 4x5, but anything bigger, you run serious risk of the camera mass being sufficient to torque the camera off the q/r plate and make the camera fall, or at a minimum, continuously twist on the tripod axis and throw off your compositions, even when doing something as innocuous as inserting a film holder. Also, because of the minimal contact area between the camera and the head, relative to the camera size, large format cameras mounted on q/r heads are more prone to vibration.

When I first got my 8x10, the only head/tripod combo I had that would hold the beast was a Bogen legset with a q/r head. I quickly replaced it with a Gitzo set that has a much larger head surface area. Whenever I would set up a shot with the camera, I would have to triple-check everything to make sure nothing had popped out of alignment, because loading the film holder would often be enough to set the camera swinging around on the q/r plate screw. I could not carry the camera mounted on the tripod for that same reason. I would have to break down the entire kit, re-pack, and move to my next shot, and set up all over again. I occasionally run into this problem with my 4x5 on a q/r head, but it is not nearly as frequent or severe a problem because the camera is much smaller and lighter. If I were shooting architecture or tabletop product shots professionally with the 4x5, I would still use a non-q/r head.

naturephoto1 · Apr 5, 2006

TheFlyingCamera said:
Mark- quick-release plates are ok up to 4x5, but anything bigger, you run serious risk of the camera mass being sufficient to torque the camera off the q/r plate and make the camera fall, or at a minimum, continuously twist on the tripod axis and throw off your compositions, even when doing something as innocuous as inserting a film holder. Also, because of the minimal contact area between the camera and the head, relative to the camera size, large format cameras mounted on q/r heads are more prone to vibration.

When I first got my 8x10, the only head/tripod combo I had that would hold the beast was a Bogen legset with a q/r head. I quickly replaced it with a Gitzo set that has a much larger head surface area. Whenever I would set up a shot with the camera, I would have to triple-check everything to make sure nothing had popped out of alignment, because loading the film holder would often be enough to set the camera swinging around on the q/r plate screw. I could not carry the camera mounted on the tripod for that same reason. I would have to break down the entire kit, re-pack, and move to my next shot, and set up all over again. I occasionally run into this problem with my 4x5 on a q/r head, but it is not nearly as frequent or severe a problem because the camera is much smaller and lighter. If I were shooting architecture or tabletop product shots professionally with the 4x5, I would still use a non-q/r head.

Do you think that this would apply to an Arca Swiss type QR if the QR mounting screw was torqued down (at lease all my Kirk, Really Right Stuff, Arca/Foba? [screws replaced] QR plates use Allen Keys to lock the screw)?

Rich

Petzi · Apr 5, 2006

Sportera said:
Then I opened my back pack to get out the 4x5 then discoved I forgot the quick release plate on another camera!

I would have shot without it. Somehow I would have fixed the camera to the tripod.

mark · Apr 5, 2006

FLying Camera,

This makes sense for larger cameras but I have never had this problem with 4x5. In fact I can't get my QR plate off my field camera. That sucker's not going anywhere without a screw driver's help.

Jeremy · Apr 5, 2006

I'm going to get shot for this, but I actually screwed my quick release plate into the base of my V8 Deardorff.... It wasn't that hard of a decision, though, as someone had previously done this so the holes were still there.

note: early, early V8 without the metal mounting plate on the bottom

Sportera · Apr 5, 2006

Well, Ive used a QR plate on my 4x5 for two years. I can set up much faster with it and I have made many good images with it. I use a bogen 5047 (I think) .

I did try briefly to fasten the camera to the head but could not get it solid enough for the lng exposures I needed.

Dorothy Blum Cooper · Apr 5, 2006

Hey Sam...35mm ain't all that bad. This is why I never travel without it:

The Mechanic - made with an ol' Canon A-1

Seriously though...bummer that it happened. It's still just an amazing site down here and along the Gulf Coast. We're heading there (downtown) as soon as I finish this post. Glad you're documenting the aftermath. You've got some impressive work. Still can't bring myself to do that yet.

glbeas · Apr 5, 2006

Actually you need to buy more spare QR plates, one for each camera. Mine go with each camera and rarely get pulled off.

dphphoto · Apr 5, 2006

mark said:
Sportera,

I can't remember the guy's name but quite a few years ago a guy took a lot of LF photos in a kindergarten classroom in low light with no tripod. He just set the camera down on stuff the settle it. Truely unique images as they were from pretty close to student perspective. Might be a thought.

That was probably Nicholas Nixon. I think that was in an issue of View Camera, but I can't remember which one.
He also did a book called "School," in three Boston area grade schools. Dean

Mongo · Apr 5, 2006

Two thoughts...first, could you have removed the head from the tripod and just screwed the camera directly to the legs? Some combinations allow this, others don't.

Secondly (and probably more practically), it's probably worth purchasing an extra plate to keep in your vehicle. Assuming you stay near your vehicle when you shoot 4x5.

TheFlyingCamera · Apr 5, 2006

mark said:
FLying Camera,

This makes sense for larger cameras but I have never had this problem with 4x5. In fact I can't get my QR plate off my field camera. That sucker's not going anywhere without a screw driver's help.

Mark- I think it all depends on the QR plate design. The Bogen hex-plates are notorious for torquing (funny, that's what the design is supposed to prevent). I think they do worse if the cork pad is worn, because it loses friction and doesn't hold as well. It also depends on the camera mounting plate design- if the surface area of the camera in contact with the tripod head is large and even, it stays on better. If it is relatively small (like the sliding mounting blocks that some tailboard design cameras have) then it is more likely to torque.

I think the Arca-style plates someone else mentioned would be less prone because they can be attached at multiple points, or at least have friction applied.

joeyk49 · Apr 6, 2006

Dorothy Blum Cooper said:
Hey Sam...35mm ain't all that bad. This is why I never travel without it:
Dorothy~ proudly using the four letter "F" word...and loving it!!! F-I-L-M

Calm Before the Storm

Dorothy Blum Cooper Photography

Dorothy:

I just viewed your presentation, "Calm Before the Storm", twice! It's terrific!

I'll bet you can still find that spirit, there...

Cheers!

Joe

Dorothy Blum Cooper · Apr 6, 2006

Dorothy:

I just viewed your presentation, "Calm Before the Storm", twice! It's terrific!

I'll bet you can still find that spirit, there...

Cheers!

Joe

Why thanks, Joe. We are still getting emails from people who are just now seeing it (Calm Before the Storm). It's a soft spot for us and for those who live here or know the area. I appreciate your input. Thanks again!

User Removed · Apr 6, 2006

I have used quick release tripod heads in the past, and I do not suggest them for anything larger then a light 4x5. Even with a 4x5, I have seen them become worn quickly and the camera loves to dance around on the top of the tripod. Just a tiny bit of wiggle can change your composition or cause you a problem on a windy day.

Unless you carry your camera in a pack and take it out each time you shoot, many large format photographers have to place their camera on the tripod and carry it over their sholder. About a year ago, a friend of mine purchase a top of the line Bogen with a quick release head for his 5x7 B+J. He was carry it over his sholder and the clip that holds the plate in slipped and his camera when tumbling behind him. Lucky it was not a very expensive camera, however he did get rid of the quick release head the next day.

Personally, I do not see what is so difficult with screwing your camera on your tripod, which only takes about 15-20 seconds. You are sacraficing alot of strength and support in your tripod by using quick release heads.

I use a Ries Model-A and have never had a problem.

All the best,

Ryan McIntosh

naturephoto1 · Apr 6, 2006

E

Ryan McIntosh said:
I have used quick release tripod heads in the past, and I do not suggest them for anything larger then a light 4x5. Even with a 4x5, I have seen them become worn quickly and the camera loves to dance around on the top of the tripod. Just a tiny bit of wiggle can change your composition or cause you a problem on a windy day.

Unless you carry your camera in a pack and take it out each time you shoot, many large format photographers have to place their camera on the tripod and carry it over their sholder. About a year ago, a friend of mine purchase a top of the line Bogen with a quick release head for his 5x7 B+J. He was carry it over his sholder and the clip that holds the plate in slipped and his camera when tumbling behind him. Lucky it was not a very expensive camera, however he did get rid of the quick release head the next day.

Personally, I do not see what is so difficult with screwing your camera on your tripod, which only takes about 15-20 seconds. You are sacraficing alot of strength and support in your tripod by using quick release heads.

I use a Ries Model-A and have never had a problem.

All the best,

Ryan McIntosh

Ryan,

As I mentioned, I have the remnants of 2 broken wrists. I am always concerned about potential wincing of pain. For me, I use the Arca Swiss type QR. I do not not carry my Linhof Technikdardan 45S or any large 35mm telephoto lenses normally over my shoulder. I normally remount the cameras or lenses directly and have not noticed any camera or lens QR rotation (they are quite tight). On the other hand the tripod head QR can rotate, but I could use Loctite (Blue?) to prevent this rotation.

Rich

clay · Apr 7, 2006

There is a quick release plate called a Cine 60 that is used by the television and motion picture cameramen to hold those monster cameras they typically use. It holds a 35 pound ULF camera without breaking a sweat. I can turn a 12x20 on its side and not worry one bit with that particular QR plate. Not all plates are created equal, and to universally condemn the use of QR devices on cameras larger than 4x5 ignores the fact that some very good gear is out there that is entirely appropriate for use on the big cameras.

This particular plate also has multiple mounting holes, which will allow you to mount the QR device to the tripod head with two screws - which mightily mitigates the problem with using just one screw from the tripod to the camera - that problem being the tendency to twist around the screw's axis when the camera is tilted on its side. I find it much superior to the the 'single screw to single hole' in the base of the camera approach.

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