Oops, I just bought a camera!

Paul Sorensen · May 9, 2005

I just went and won a 4X5 camera, my first, on eBay.

In case anyone is curious, the auction is at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7512012283. The $130 price was about my limit, so I wasn't looking for anything fancy. I know that it is a bit limited in movements and such, but if it indeed has decent bellows and works, I think I got a deal.

I would love it if anyone can help me with any ideas for an appropriate lens, probably in the range of 130 - 180mm and inexpensive. If anyone takes pity and wants to sell me something cheap, PM me. If anyone has advice on what lenses to seek out and what lenses to avoid, taking the shutter into consideration as well, that would be greatly appreciated.

I have played with some 4X5 monorails but never owned my own camera before. I am very excited!

David A. Goldfarb · May 9, 2005

Congrats on the new camera.

First thing to figure out is how to do indirect movements. If you need front tilt--tilt the back, level the camera, and apply front rise to reframe.

First lens--I'd recommend looking for something like an older Schneider Symmar convertible. These are modern designs, single coated, have normal filter sizes, and are in Synchro-Compur shutters typically. If the shutter hasn't been serviced recently it might need a CLA, but they usually clean up nicely. They'll give you a decent normal lens and a somewhat less sharp lens of portrait length with the front cell removed--not necessarily a bad quality in a portrait lens. The 135 is one of the most compact lenses out there, but a 150 or 180 will have a larger image circle.

Paul Sorensen · May 9, 2005

Something like this item?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30076&item=751373977

Thanks for the advice. I see what you mean about indirect movements. It would have been a while for me to figure that out myself.

MattCarey · May 9, 2005

One place to check is KEH (an APUG sponsor). Don't be put off by "bargain" grade lenses. I have a 180mm symmar that was bargain that looks like it was never mounted on a lensboard.

Matt

Ole · May 9, 2005

First of all: Congratulations, and welcome to the Dark Slide!

David suggests a Symmar lens - and so will I. But with the fairly short bellows of your camera you won't be able to focus the rear half of a Symmar 150/265 at portrait distances. Even the 135/235 will be difficult (infinity focus with rear element needs 285mm extension - 11 1/4"). So I suggest you get a Symmar simply because they are good lenses which are very much underrated. You should be able to find a nice one for less than the price of a shutter. Since they were all made in the 1950's, they are all (single-)coated, too.

David A. Goldfarb said:
First lens--I'd recommend looking for something like an older Schneider Symmar convertible. These are modern designs, single coated, have normal filter sizes, and are in Synchro-Compur shutters typically. If the shutter hasn't been serviced recently it might need a CLA, but they usually clean up nicely. They'll give you a decent normal lens and a somewhat less sharp lens of portrait length with the front cell removed--not necessarily a bad quality in a portrait lens. The 135 is one of the most compact lenses out there, but a 150 or 180 will have a larger image circle.

Nick Zentena · May 9, 2005

I agree with Keh add Mpex to that to. Lens prices on Ebay seem too high to me. When I was looking for a 300mm I saw lenses selling for more then the new price for the same lens. Better to get something from a good dealer AND save money.

John Kasaian · May 9, 2005

Welcome to LF! Thats a very spiffy looking Korona---looks like a lot of fun is headed your way this summer In addition to the Symmars already suggested consider these:

One bargain lens you might find quite cheap is the Wollensak 162mm Velostigmat(uncoated) or Raptar(often single coated)usually found in Rapax or Betax shutters usually for right around $100 or so.

There are also plenty of old lenses from speed graphics floating around quite reasonably. Some like the 127 Ektar are very sharp but offer zilch for movements on 4x5s. I paid $75 for mine in a working Supermatic shutter.

A real plum if you can find one is a 203 f7.7 Ektar. If you can find a good one one for under $200 you've come across a real bargain!

Have fun!

Frank Petronio · May 9, 2005

I have an inexpensive 135/235 Symmar in the for sale section but anything in that range will be fine. The 135 Wide Field Ektar and 203 Ektars are both excellent lenses even by modern standards (so is the Symmar FWIW) and would be nice matches for an American camera.

gma · May 9, 2005

Also you can use barrel lenses (without a shutter). You can find them really cheap at various websites, including Surplus Shed. If you can find a 150-200 mm lens with a diaphragm to f/32 you can use slow film with ND and/or other filters to increase the shutter speeds to 1 second or longer. You can use an opaque black "sock" for a shutter with good success.

DKHutchinson · May 10, 2005

Welcome to the world of large format!! Youv'e got a nice little camera there- I just bought one very much like it on e-Bay recently as my first large format camera. I have successfully used both a Schneider 120 mm angulon (with some front rise) and a 210 mm Schneider convertable symmar (with all movements) on mine, and would recommend these lenses to you on the basis of the fact that they are much cheaper than newer lenses and they do perform well. It's too bad you don't have the extension rail for yours, as you have enough bellows to focus a lens of ca. 20 inch focal length. My 210 converts to a 370 mm lens after removing the front lens elements, and there is still bellows left over after focusing it on objects ca. 15 feet away. That said, with all that bellows, you probably can't go down in focal length much less than 120 mm, as with mine, the bellows is pretty well compressed when focused at infinity. I hope you enjoy doing your first Scheimpflug with your camera, as I really got a kick out of seeing it happen on the ground glass the first time I tried it!! I might also recommend that you replace the OEM sandblasted ground glass with a SatinSnow glass, it really makes a difference in how fine a detail you can see when focusing and framing. Enjoy!!!

Paul Sorensen · May 10, 2005

DKHutchinson said:
I might also recommend that you replace the OEM sandblasted ground glass with a SatinSnow glass, it really makes a difference in how fine a detail you can see when focusing and framing. Enjoy!!!

I am certainly planning on ordering a new GG from Dave. I am still considering lenses, but I am very intrigued by Frank's 135 convertible Symmar. It seems like a nice compromise between a modern (read: expensive) lens and an antique.

Thanks for the input everyone!

Ole · May 10, 2005

I really like the convertible Symmars - and the convertible Angulons!

It isn't well known that Angulons were originally intended as convertibles, but they were... The post-WWII lenses were slightly modified from the original plan, but not more than that they can still be converted in a pinch:

Usual : Angulon : Max. Size : Using one cell only
Size : focus : of plate : Front cell : Rear cell
in : mm : in : mm : mm.
5x4 : 90 : 6.5x4.75 : 185 @f14max. : 140 @f12max.
7x5 : 120 : 8.5x6.5 : 250 : 185
10x8 : 165 : 12x10 : 345 : 260
12x10 : 210 : 15x12 : 430 : 330

Charles Webb · May 10, 2005

For what it is worth, I have had excellent results from what other folks believe to be junk. I believe that any lens from 135mm to to 210 mm would be a good place to start. You can find Wollensak lenses etc. at very low prices, I use and love a 150mm Red Dot Artar that cost me $32.00. I personally believe that it is not necessary to spend tons of money to buy a name lens for an introduction into large format. To my way of thinking everything on ebay has gone totally crazy, people are spending more to buy Packard shutters than they cost new. I saw a set of the little infinity stops for a graflex camera bid up to $56.00. Wow I used to install them and adjust the Kalart rangefinder for $5.00. My recommendation is pick out something
regardless of what the list experts say and put it to work. You don't have to sell the farm to buy glass that will give you years of great service and results.

Let the flames begin!

Ole · May 11, 2005

Charles Webb is correct - although on this side of the Atlantic I tend to find old Schneider lenses cheaper. Yesterday I fixed the dial-set Compur shutter (it was easy) of a 150mm f:3.5 Xenar Typ D I bought for less than $50 - including a Technika lensboard which often fetches higher prices alone!

Paul Sorensen · May 20, 2005

Well, I got the camera today and it is really something. The photos on eBay didn't do it justice and I am really going to enjoy this thing. In the interim I also bought a Cambo 4X5 from an APUG classified, and that also arrived today, along with 10 holders from KEH and three boxes of paper from Freestyle. Quite a day! I was considering selling the Korona, but it is so gorgeous and light, I will probably keep it for when I want to hike a bit and I can use the Calumet for times when I am working from the car or in a studio. I also got a Fujinon lens the other day that should work well for both cameras in the short term. It is a 150 f/5.6 WS and I got it from Japan on eBay for a very good price.

Thanks to every one who chimed in with advice and encouragement. I will post results as soon as I get something that I am proud enough of to post.

Paul.

Oops, I just bought a camera!

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