Oops! Darkroom space issues.

Jarvman · Jun 15, 2008

After I got driven 7 hours to pick up my new enlarger I've found out it's too big for my bleedin darkroom! The fancy worktops are going to have to be gutted out and rebuilt lower somehow. This is wickedy whack.

Dave Miller · Jun 15, 2008

It may be of little compensation, but you are not the first. It's all part of life's rich tapestry.

David A. Goldfarb · Jun 15, 2008

Can you raise the ceiling (if there are neighbors upstairs, I'm sure they won't mind a little wooden box permanently attached to their floor somewhere)? If you mount the enlarger column directly to the table instead of using a baseboard, does that give you enough room?

Vincent Brady · Jun 15, 2008

MAX HEADROOM ?

Gareth,
Sorry to read about your problem, but don't rush into any rash solutions like lowering your workbench height. This could lead to uncomfortable working at the processing stages. Since you will hardly ever have to raise the head to its full height, why not consider making a opening in the ceiling to accommodate the extra height ?

Cheers
TEX

MikeSeb · Jun 15, 2008

You need to petition the county to enlarge its borders and thereby accomodate a proportional increase in the size of your house. Just a tug on the boundary line should do it.

Jarvman · Jun 15, 2008

No neighbours upstairs, just the attic. Not sure if raising the ceiling would be any easier than altering the worktops. probably not! Nah, still not quite enough room even without the baseboard. The worktop isn't quite wide enough for the baseboard anyway so placing an easel would be quite precarious. Mother has phoned for the same carpenter that converted our loft to come have a look at it tomorrow hopefully to see what can be done.

Opening in the ceiling eh? That sounds like it could work.

David A. Goldfarb · Jun 15, 2008

The ceiling opening is a pretty common solution, as long as you don't have to worry about upstairs or hitting a pipe or something. Better than working at an uncomfortable height, as TEX suggests.

RobC · Jun 15, 2008

what make and model is your enlarger? Durst made wall mounting brackets for their enlargers. So if its a durst and you can get a wall mounting bracket, Then you would only need to cut a slot at the back of the work top to put the column through. And then you don't need the baseboard. You can just put your easel directly onto the work top.

Or if its some other make, then you could get your local engineer or blacksmith shop to fabricate some brackets to attach it to the wall.

Jarvman · Jun 15, 2008

It's a durst laborator 1200 and I have the wall bracket for it. The bracket looks huge though. I'd prefer to keep the baseboard on it because the enlarger is in the corner at the intersection of a thin worktop running along the wall to the right of me and a larger worktop along the back wall in front. That'd make the easel hang over the edge slightly like the baseboard does at the moment. The baseboard won't be wobbly as soon as the full weight of the enlarger is sitting at the back of it though, the same situation as with using the focomat. The enlarger came with a free spider too haha! He hitched a ride over the river Severn. Shall I put him in the classifieds, I'm not fussed on them.

RobC · Jun 15, 2008

Jarvman said:
It's a durst laborator 1200 and I have the wall bracket for it. The bracket looks huge though.

I also have an L1200 and have just bought a FEMOWALL N wall bracket for mine. Haven't installed it yet as I need to put in a new worktop which will have a slot in the back for the bracket.

Really depends on how much ceiling height you have above the worktop height. Losing the basboard gives you an extra two inches height. My worktop will be at 30 inches and that leaves me plenty of room as my ceiling height is 7' 10"

However, the femowal N is actually longer than the column so I have to cut a slot in the work top for it to go through. The whole enlarger column can be moved up and down the femowall but with the worktop at 30 inches, I have enough room for the lower bracket, which fits to the femowall, to be above the worktop height.
If you have the other type of wall mount which is just the top and bottom brackets which bolt directly to the wall, then if the lower bracket would be below the worktop, then yes you would have to cut a large slot out of the worktop. But it would save moving the worktop height and any cupboards under it.

If there are kitchen units under the worktop, then you could take the legs off them and drop the top height down. That would gain you another 6 inches making an extra 8 inches when you lose the baseboard.

RobC · Jun 15, 2008

Currently, my L1200 is sitting on my desk which has a solid oak top mounted on a metal frame. Its a very solid desk. The weight of the enlarger has flexed the desk top and because that made the enalrger lean, the baseboard has also now started to bend which is one of the reasons I bought the wallmount. i.e. you need a very solid worktop to stand an L1200 on. If you only have it on a thin worktop you will have problems down the line.

Jarvman · Jun 15, 2008

rob champagne said:
The weight of the enlarger has flexed the desk top and because that made the enalrger lean, the baseboard has also now started to bend which is one of the reasons I bought the wallmount. i.e. you need a very solid worktop to stand an L1200 on. If you only have it on a thin worktop you will have problems down the line.

I didn't think this one through properly did I

RobC · Jun 15, 2008

doesn't sound like it. But then I didn't expect my desk to bend. However, I always leave the head as high as it will go (it reaches ceiling) so that the counter balance spring is not stretched out when not in use. That causes extra pressure on front of desk. If the head was always left at lowest position, then the forces on the front of the worktop would be much lower. But I don't think that would be good for the spring long term.

RobC · Jun 15, 2008

Just out of interest, how high is your ceiling?

Jarvman · Jun 15, 2008

It's 7ft, the counter is 52inches from the ceiling. I've just had it set up and working now and for the size prints I want to make from 4x5 negs I can raise the head to just under the ceiling height with the 150mm lens. it's going to be a problem when it comes to cropping though. I tried using a 100mm lens to enlarge a 4x5 neg and this brought the height of the head right down. What sort of impact will this have on the quality of my enlargements though? It's looking less worrysome than earlier. A way will be found I'm sure.

jeroldharter · Jun 15, 2008

I have the same issue with my Beseler 45 VXL and 8 foot ceilings.

I had a 3 foot wide section of cabinet built that was just about 2 feet tall on which to place the baseboard. That cabinet is surrounded by cabinets on both sides to which they screwed stringer boards onto which I place a piece of countertop for the easel. For prints up to 16 x 20, I put the easel at the regular counter height. The enlarger is very stable so racking the head up high is no problem. For prints larger than 16 x 20, Iremove the piece of countertop and place the easel on the baseboard below. That is a bit awkward, but I only do this a few times a year. Saves raising the roof.

Be aware that roof joists are usually 16 inches apart on center and your light source is probably larger than that. so even if you can get the column into the new space, you might not be able to raise the light source to maximum height.

RobC · Jun 15, 2008

Jarvman said:
It's 7ft, the counter is 52inches from the ceiling. I've just had it set up and working now and for the size prints I want to make from 4x5 negs I can raise the head to just under the ceiling height with the 150mm lens. it's going to be a problem when it comes to cropping though. I tried using a 100mm lens to enlarge a 4x5 neg and this brought the height of the head right down. What sort of impact will this have on the quality of my enlargements though? It's looking less worrysome than earlier. A way will be found I'm sure.

I don't know how you squeezed it into 52 inches. With the basebaord on, mine is 56 inches. Anyhow, A 100mm lens won't usually cover 4x5. You are likely to have some light fall off / vignetting in the corners. However, there are 135mm lenses designed to cover 4x5 adequately and one of those should do the trick for you.

rogonar-s 135
rodagon 135
rodagon-wa 120

componon-s 135

all of those will do it with full coverage of 4x5 and give you more room to play with.

obviously the rodagon-wa 120 would give you the most room to play with but is probably the most difficult to find.

RobC · Jun 15, 2008

To add: If you put the head right up so it just touches the ceiling, you can read off the column what the enlargement factor is at that height for a 150mm lens and a 105mm lens (assuming you have the same scales on yours). From that you should be able to see if you need a 135 which won't make a huge difference or 120 which will make a significant difference as its closer to the 105 scale. Hope that makes sense.

Sparky · Jun 15, 2008

Jarvman said:
I didn't think this one through properly did I

I wouldn't worry too much about that... your average room isn't necessarily custom tailored to be a good exposing room. Modifications are usually required to 'do it right' and get maximum usage from your space. Building yourself a good table mount rail would be a good idea - as would getting a wall mount kit. Cutting up into the ceiling isn't as bad as it might seem. Just make sure you have a layer of drywall installed all around. I can give you some advice on this if you want. It's perfectly legal and 'to code' if you do it correctly - it'll generally buy you at least 8" more room.

Jarvman · Jun 16, 2008

I haven't squeezed it into a 52" space Rob. Just saying that's the amount of room I have to play with at the moment without having done anything yet. Cheers for pointing out the names of lenses that'll give me 4x5 coverage but allow me to drop the head further. I'll have to keep an eye out. That sounds a very good solution Jerold. I was thinking of building a coantertop 2 feet from the ground to get the full height of the column but realised it was be backbreakingly awkward to use. never thought of having a raised piece of counter above where the baseboard is.

Dave Miller · Jun 16, 2008

Sparky said:
I wouldn't worry too much about that... your average room isn't necessarily custom tailored to be a good exposing room. Modifications are usually required to 'do it right' and get maximum usage from your space. Building yourself a good table mount rail would be a good idea - as would getting a wall mount kit. Cutting up into the ceiling isn't as bad as it might seem. Just make sure you have a layer of drywall installed all around. I can give you some advice on this if you want. It's perfectly legal and 'to code' if you do it correctly - it'll generally buy you at least 8" more room.

It may be "to code" in the USA, but it generally is not in the UK, since the ceiling is a fire barrier that must now be maintained.

Sparky · Jun 16, 2008

It's to code in the UK also (well - germany I know for sure). What needs to be maintained is the 'assembly'. If you have 1 hour equivalency at every given point - you're safe. To be doubly sure - if you're worried about it - simply line the bottom of the floor and joists with 2 layers of drywall.

jeroldharter · Jun 16, 2008

Here are some pics of what I did. Hope that helps. The drop table is a bit hard to see because I lined everything with black foam core. Also, I don't have a pictures with the piece of countertop in place but it fits on stringers flush with the main countertop.

Frank Szabo · Jun 16, 2008

Jerold:

Beautiful job on the darkroom, but I wasn't aware a good print could be made in an area that neat [grin]

Jarvman · Jun 16, 2008

Yes, this is most definately the solution! Cheers Jerold! Mother dearest has spoken to the same carpenter that converted the loft and he's coming over on weds to have a look. It'll be a case of removing the cupboards along the back wall which you can that see in the picture and building a smaller stand beneath it. That'll leave a 3 footish gap between the cupboards along the left and the wall along the right where I can drop in a countertop. Does the drop-in counter have a hole in it for the column or is it slightly thinner and just sits in front of it? That easel is a beauty. I need to get myself one, only have a 12x16" at the moment. What are the largest prints you can produce? I'll be able to single tray process 20x24's in the sink I reckon. The calculations on the whiteboard are frightening. I'm learning nothing by using the splitgrade system but it's going to allow me to make bigger enlargements without wasting so much paper. Just need to spend a lot more time printing after this is all set up.

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