Only shooting B&W - the colour editing faff.

I too dislike the hybrid side of things. I'm at the computer a fair amount just doing random stuff, so I tend to try and avoid mixing computer work with photography. For me, photography is my "disconnect" mechanism.
I also was never really a color photographer (in college, I didn't feel like messing with color papers and the funky print processor we had). I definitely see the power that a well composed/exposed color image can hold, and I've been trying to expand my horizons a bit.

Take a color image from your archive that you are happy with and convert it to grayscale. Does the image hold up without the color?
Also, your posts hint at quite a large volume of snaps while out photographing (or simply a very large back catalogue of images) what about some editing in the moment? If you don't like the image on the lcd, why bring it home on the memory card?

As to the Q2 monochrome; to each his/her own, but that's borderline insanity to me. $6200 for a fixed lens b&w only. 47mp is nice, but I feel like you could accomplish the same thing for a lot less in a few other ways.

Oh, in your GFX, you don't have a film or lens preset running that is causing your issues do you? Just some thoughts.

Hi.

I shoot very often, and cull ruthlessly. Not on camera though, I wait months to view images if not years. I like that separation.

I’ve invested quite a bit of time creating a generic preset for my colour work. It’s quite extreme, but resembles old Kodachrome. I’m using that as a default for the time being, and also applying a Silver Efex preset.

I’m really liking black and white. I noticed with them that me eye goes directly to the subject, but with colour it meanders. I think I’ll, outside of some long term projects that I’d like to be consistent with colour, I’ll try B&W for 6-12 months.

Don't all reasonably sophisticated digital cameras have a monochrome setting? That would save the trouble of buying a dedicated monochrome camera.

Being a software developer for 40 years, I too hated the idea of coming home and editing images on a computer. I quit scanning and finally built my darkroom. That means I also quit shooting color completely because getting all those colors right in a darkroom looked to be 10 times the trouble of doing it in photoshop, and way more aggravation than I want to deal with.

pbromaghin said:

Don't all reasonably sophisticated digital cameras have a monochrome setting? That would save the trouble of buying a dedicated monochrome camera.

Being a software developer for 40 years, I too hated the idea of coming home and editing images on a computer. I quit scanning and finally built my darkroom. That means I also quit shooting color completely because getting all those colors right in a darkroom looked to be 10 times the trouble of doing it in photoshop, and way more aggravation than I want to deal with.

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Only JPEG and I don’t like the conversions they offer. I like to go very dark. Nobody makes an in camera conversion I like.

Darkroom is my next goal, just need the plumber to finish.

I (amateur) have set my X113 to B/W, and it has changed the way I am using the camera. I cannot explain why but removing colour makes me focus much more on image composition. I had also toyed with the idea of buying a Q or M Monochrom, but the changing the setting on my X was free and instant (but I understand and like the idea behind the Monochrome range, like a 911 RS, stripped to the max...).

Unlike my Hasselblads, the X113 can show the image in the rear screen in b/w. I was actually shocked when I used it for the first time! Now I love it.

MTGseattle said:

For me, photography is my "disconnect" mechanism.

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A nice phrase. For me too. When editing, I usually crop/align, and either use Dramatic Warm or Silvertone presets, if at all. So editing time per pic is less than 30sec.

I prune religiously.

I don't understand the appeal of a digital black-and-white camera. Why not just set a digital camera to shoot RAW in monochrome mode? You can preview the image in B&W on the LCD while shooting and have a lot of flexibility in converting the RAW image to B&W in post-processing. Unlike color editing which indeed is tricky, B&W post-processing seems really straightforward and enjoyable. And I still prefer film for B&W.

Monochrome + IR conversion is a different story and it does make sense if you shoot a lot of infrared.

As I said earlier - the lack of features is forcing the user to think differently. Like the M without rear screen.

Many Japanese DSLRs are overloaded with features. Removing them forces the user to work with the limitations.

I really like the concept. In photography as well as in music, there is a danger of technological progress leading to gimmick-y results.

Whereas one man, one lens, one film, one camera body, one Billingham bag, one bare-bone 911RS, one Fender Telecaster with 2 pickups, one bottle of liquor store scotch...

Romanko said:

Unlike color editing which indeed is tricky, B&W post-processing seems really straightforward and enjoyable.

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That's very personal. I agree it's sort of different, but converting color RAW into presentable B&W is quite a bit of work IMO. I don't do much digital image editing nowadays, but when I did, the B&W edits cost me far more time than color.

RezaLoghme said:

As I said earlier - the lack of features is forcing the user to think differently. Like the M without rear screen.

Many Japanese DSLRs are overloaded with features. Removing them forces the user to work with the limitations.

I really like the concept. In photography as well as in music, there is a danger of technological progress leading to gimmick-y results.

Whereas one man, one lens, one film, one camera body, one Billingham bag, one bare-bone 911RS, one Fender Telecaster with 2 pickups, one bottle of liquor store scotch...

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"...gimmick-y results" = autotuned vocals permeating music right now=yuck.

My life would certainly be simpler if I could settle on 1 camera.

Hahaha Autotune! Maybe we should compose and record the official forum mumble rap/trap track.

Mine would be simpler, too. I totally understand the whole Leica M thing. Its the Fender Stratocaster Custom Shop equivalent of a camera. Legendary and contemporary and reassuringly expensive.

I tried Hasselblad, but then there is Leica. Iconic Rollei TLRs. Mid-century Japanese design (Mamiya C, Canonet etc). Its all so tempting!

But yes, can you be the Stratocaster-and-also-a-Les-Paul guy? Own a Mercedes a n d a BMW?

I admire Leica for having come up with the Monochrome idea. And, looking at the OP's nice problem to have, it seems to hit a nerve.

I'm never one to scoff at someone if they can afford "nice" things and use/enjoy them. I just wonder at how much extra "Leica" costs vs if Fuji or anyone else did a monochrome only camera with similar specifications. (I don't think the Pentax K3?) is an apples to apples comparison.

I can't even settle on a scanning workflow that doesn't drive me nuts so I should probably bow out of this thread.

P1505 said:

Hi.

I don’t know if this is the right place to ask this. I don’t know what I’m asking I guess. Maybe I’m over reflecting again.

Editing, specifically editing colour, kills my flow. I have thousands of images I’ve not looked at and more I’ve looked at end ignored for now because I find editing colours a chore.

This post by the way may end with me solving my own problem and deciding to sell a lot of cameras.

I love the act of photography and I love editing and making hand made books. But getting the colours to look how it felt when I made the photograph I just despise. I don’t want to sit for hours adjusting sliders or trying presets. I can’t stand it.

I’ve thought about removing the burden and buying a Monochrome camera and shooting colour film where I seem to just never need to edit after the scan. Sell the GFX etc and buy a Q2 Mono and shoot Kodak Gold on the film cameras. Or keep the GFX to scan the film, I dunno.

I need to simplify. I want things easier so I can focus on what I already do, photographing, but get more images out the other end. If I keep going as I am I’ll have 50k images I can’t be bothered to look at.

My thinking is to force the simplicity. Maybe I should spend a bit of time finding a look I like for each project and applying that preset or maybe I should find an editor to do that for me.

I don’t know what I’m asking, so I guess I’m looking for debate and conversation about the benefits of limiting yourself to monochrome or one colour film stock.

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Lately I've needed to shoot a lot of color (film) and I dislike the scanning/editing too. For me scanning/editing B&W is low stress and fun, and color is the opposite.

If you're Leica, you can do what you want.

Well, they had the idea...and I like it. Often, the "best" things are quite sparse in terms of features. Or their formula remains unchanged for a long time, thereby becoming the industry standard (501, coca cola, 911, Submariner, BIC lighter). Technically these are ever the "best" but so "good enough" and versatile that they seem to live forever.

In the vein of too many features, I'm wondering if we suffer from too much editing? I've made peace with the fact that only a small fraction of my images are strong enough for that level of editing effort. That reduces my computer time by like 80%.

I "edit" in Apple Photo, with the few features it provides. More than enough.

I have invested the time to perfect my 120 scanning, and I’m very impressed with what the GFX can do. I convert in Negative Lab Pro but can see that changing as if I move to Smart Convert I can ditch Adobe. The importing, converting, exporting faff with Lightroom and the general faff of Lightrooms UI bothers me. I much prefer DXO.

In DXO I have one preset I apply for my Canon 5D, and I have no need to edit the film scans after they’re converted. I cannot get the GFX non-scans to look how I want, it seems I just don’t like Fuji colour.

I’ve decided to shoot more colour film, although my plan to shoot 645 is failing as the photos from the Hasselblad 6x6 are just better. I’ll persist for a while as three extra shots per roll over a year adds up and the Mamiya is easier to frame with.

Therefore this is my plan: My Sony’s are all sold; My Fuji will be my scanning camera and not leave the copy stand; The Canon 5D will again become my rugged project camera; I’ll use a Leica Q2 for family duty and for project work that requires something less aggressive looking.

I’ll look to upgrade the 5D in future to gather more pixels - but not sure what to.

I’m aware that I’ll need to create a “look” per project but as I complete projects every decade that’s fine.

The Leica M10 is entirely superfluous now, but I cannot bring myself to sell it. Although if I did I could get both types of Q2, but I feel the M10 is a long term keeper whereas the Q2 is more throwaway. I’m not sure how long it’ll last.

I cannot make a fire and forget black and white conversion I like, yet. But I’ll persist. I think converting colour to black and white is harder than people suggest, as least for me.

Seconded: shooting positives gives you color that generally requires very little editing, unless the film is very old. It also has a certain "look" to it that you may enjoy, which is not reproducible from color negative. I recommend the new Ektachrome E100 for fresh, and Sensia for expired.

Another advantage of positives is that dust shows up black which is less ugly on most pictures than bright white specks.

Hmm. 120 slide film, sounds fun

Just updating with my recent efforts to find a click and forget colour profile for my Leica Q2, I'll handle the GFX later. I've also been playing and have found a fire and forget Silver Efex conversion. But I've been staring at these so long I don't know if they are average, awful, or between the two. So please let me know your thoughts, and I appreciate it should be my vision but I don't have a trusted friend for colour so here we are
Also, shooting with a. 28mm on full frame after shooting 80mm on GFX for so long is wonderful and freeing but Jesus you have to invade people's space.

P1505 said:

Hmm. 120 slide film, sounds fun

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It is!!
It is even much more than that: Unique quality without all the time-consuming, no-fun hassle of scanning.
Just get a very good lighttable, e.g. the Kaiser slimlite plano. Excellent quality.
Then get an excellent medium format slide loupe: Perfect solution is the Schneider-Kreuznach 3x medium format loupe.
With that you will get amazing quality: No detail loss because of scanning, top sharpness, original perfect colors, and an outstanding three-dimensionality which cannot be achieved at all with scanned film shots or digital files viewed on a computer monitor. Monitors always give flat images, they cannot offer any depth. And they they all have this brutal resolution limit (2MP, 8MP).

Next step with color positives: Projection! You will be blown away by the quality!
And excellent medium format projectors (e.g. Rollei, Kindermann) are very cheap on the used market.

P1505 said:

Hi.

I don’t know if this is the right place to ask this. I don’t know what I’m asking I guess. Maybe I’m over reflecting again.

Editing, specifically editing colour, kills my flow. I have thousands of images I’ve not looked at and more I’ve looked at end ignored for now because I find editing colours a chore.


I need to simplify. I want things easier so I can focus on what I already do, photographing, but get more images out the other end. If I keep going as I am I’ll have 50k images I can’t be bothered to look at.

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I've read the whole thread here , but I'm not quite getting you .
Bearing in mind this is the hybrid forum where you discuss either shooting film and digitalising it for further use ( printing , viewing on a monitor , projecting etc ) or the other way , capturing digitally then transferring onto film for alternative processes of analogue printing .
But either you've got hundreds of rolls of film you've shot , scanned and never done anything with or your shooting 100% digital , and want to either view or print digitally ?
Therefore nothing to do with hybrid methods ?

Are you looking for a film alternative if your currently shooting digital or the other way around ?
Or is this a purely digital discussion ?

I don't use much colour film because of the faff digitalising and converting it and getting the colours right .
If I'm wanting a more film like look with my digital cameras , I'll use my Sony a900 and Minolta lenses , typically a 24-105mm as with that combination they look to me to have a nice film like quality.
Usually when I've imported onto the PC they just need a tweak for white balance , contrast and sharpening.

For black and white I typically only shoot film . 35mm , 120 and large format , as apart from the process of shooting and developing etc which I enjoy , once digitalised and converted to a positive, that's most of the work done .
Converted digital files don't really work for me .

For infrared photography I enjoy using Rollei IR 400 film , which I like the results in all formats , but I also have infrared and full spectrum cameras I've converted , mainly the Sony NEX 6 get used .
Film and digital give different results , but I don't try to replicate the digital to imitate film .
I'm sure it's possible, but I just shoot one or the other depending on what I'm wanting at the time .

So if this is a purely digital question your asking , I think it's your workflow and attitude to your photography is the problem , not the camera or software .
Having "thousands" of images you can't be bothered doing anything with does suggest lots of snapshots of things that you don't find interesting afterwards .

If that's the case I'd suggest you treat your digital camera more like a film camera and limit how many shots you take either per day or any particular point of interest .
Instead of snapping away , look at it first , have a walk around , then compose .
Then review the same day and cull the ones that either don't do it for you or are just a bunch of similar shots of the same thing .
Just keep one that came out well .
Leaving hundreds of shots for reviewing for weeks or months then becomes a massive choir and gets left .

If you got in the habit of going threw a days shoot or weeks holiday shots withing a few days , they won't build up and get left .

Regarding the shots you've just posted , they look fine to me .
But as your issue is processing them in a way you like , it's no point asking others if they like them , as it's a very personal thing .
You might not like how other people process their images , but they do .
And visa versa .

Hope you find a solution that works for you without buying more kit , as this doesn't seem to be the problem.