One question each: Fujinon-SW 120/8; Seiko shutter; Linhof lensboard

OK these three questions actually relate to one item I bought on eBay- A Fujinon-SW 120mm f/8. Here they are:

• This is the first lens I have owned in a Seiko shutter. At first I thought it was broken because the preview lever seemed stuck. It turned out that in order for the preview to work, the shutter has to be cocked- the opposite of the Copals I am much more familiar with. My question: The shutter seems to operate smoothly and consistently but has a ‘ringing’ sound that persists for a couple of seconds. It’s easiest to hear if you set the shutter speed at 1/15 or higher, cutting out the gear train.is this normal?
• The lens is on a Linhof-clone board with an offset hole. My Intrepid 4x5 has front axis tilt. Am I correct that a lens board with a centered hole would be the appropriate type for an axis-tilt design?
• OK, here we go straight into Nerdville: the rear group on this lens is much larger than the 115 mm Caltar Irebadged Rodenstock) I owned back in the day. In fact, it’s so big it barely makes it through the hole in the front standard with the lens cap off, and not at all when it was left on (yes I know you can’t take pictures that way; I was just checking the lens out and protecting the surface). It seems that the rear section may actually be limiting the range of movement on the front standard with the fixed bellows of the Intrepid. Is there an option in this 115 to 125 mm range that doesn’t have as much protrusion into the camera? I was trying to take the back assembly off to see, but the Graflok clip retaining screws were apparently tightened by someone who was mad at their spouse the day my camera got assembled. I believe the spec I am asking about is referred to as ‘rear flange distance’. I’m wondering if there’s a viable option that would not project as far into the camera and permit more movement range.

Thanks in advance for any insights you can give. Sometimes I feel like Rip van Winkle, getting back into large format and film after a long absence. Everyone on this form who has responded to any of my questions has been very helpful. I have even found gear that I thought was made of unobtainium. Thanks to all. Sorry for te verbose post.

1. none of my Seiko shutter make a ringing sound. FYI a lot of older shutters of different makes require cocking the shutter first, or some other approach.

2. With axis tilt having the axis run through the center of the shutter hole is ideal, but far from a deal breaker. If the hole is off center when you tile you are also moving the focus position. (for example, if the hole is lower than the tilt axis and you point the lens upward you are also moving the lens forward. OTOH, you are effectively dealing with the same if you have base tilt (actually with base tilt you are moving the lens backwards when tilting the lens up.)

3. I don't have the Fuji SW 120, but there are only a limited number of biogon derivatives in that focal length--so it might be easier to just search each one a look for images to or specs to compare. Generally I've seen the 120 as more of a 5x7 lens, but then I don't need nearly the amount of movements that the 120 provides. On 4x5 I'd use something like the W 125mm which provides as much image circle as I need.

Thanks

If you are able to slide the lens board up by 5mm, then I'm reasonably sure your lens will then be centred.

All of my lens boards are off centred and require this work around, it has become part of how I insert the lens board into the front standard, I just lift it up by 5mm.

BTW, the offset hole is very specifically a Linhof thing. If you have a Technika the camera has no fall without dropping the bed, so their lenses generally came on an offset board so in default position there was already some built in fall. Third party boards are generally inexpensive and can be purchased with the hole centered. Use the board you have now with the workaround, but I'd plan to spend the $20 to get a centered lens board to replace the offset one.

My Intrepid is one of the many that accept Linhof boards or clones thereof. Front tilts are axis type. As received, I couldn’t get the front clip over the OEM board, but it fit the Linhof-clone board well so one probably has to settle on one or the other.

Thanks to you both for the know how pertaining to the Linhof board. Since I already have to get one board anyway I’ll probably just get both, centered, so my zero marks will be accurate.

I want to see if there’s something out there with less overhang than the Fujinon. I wonder how much optical performance I would give up with an Angulon or WA Dagor…. It would certainly make for a lighter kit.

The Fujinon SW (SUPER WIDE) 120mm was a beast with a 100 degree angle of coverage. It has an image circle almost 300mm across. It was expensive, large, and heavy. Fortunately, Fujinon made a lot of 125mm lenses intended for 4x5" cameras: I use a NW (New Wide) 125mm with an appropriate 76 degree angle of view and a 198mm image circle. It's my favorite lens.

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/byfl.htm

the WA dagors are pricey. They aren't going to have the image circle of a Fuji or Nikkor SW, Schneider Super Angulon, or a Rodenstock Grandagon. Neither will a regular Angulon. I'd work back from how much movement you need. As I mentioned, a regular od Fuji W 125 will give a moderate amount of movement on 4x5--their image circles range from 198mm to 210mm. That's about 25mm rise and 25mm fall from center, which is enough for my uses. The 120 SW is a bit wider and gives you 290mm which is great but is big and bulky.

I’m just struck by how much bigger it is on the inside group than the rebadged Calumet/Rodenstock I had, which on top of everything else was an F 4.5 rather than an F8.

Grafmatic said:

I’m just struck by how much bigger it is on the inside group than the rebadged Calumet/Rodenstock I had, which on top of everything else was an F 4.5 rather than an F8.

Click to expand...

That's because it wasn't really designed for 4x5 cameras. It is easily a 5x7 lens, and possibly can just barely hit the corners of an 8x10 if you stop down far enough.

The 125mm W / NW / NWS / CM-W lenses are all much smaller and lighter and also have much smaller image circles. They also have much smaller rear element groups.

If you really want large movements, the 120 SW is the way to go. Most people don't need that kind of coverage for normal shooting, and as you've discovered, there are physical fit and geometry issues that can occur with the large lenses on smaller bodies.

If you want/need the movement, you will have to get a bag bellows if the rear element group is interfering with the bellows when you move things around. If that's not possible on the Intrepid, you'll probably need to get a different lens or camera, depending on which is more important; having all the movement available in the lens, or shooting with a 120mm-125mm lens more generally.

As for the dropped lens board... some cameras are built to center the lens on the axis tilt with a dropped board and others are designed to center the lens when on a centered board. I'd recommend getting the type of board that centers the lens properly because in most cases, the axis tilt will move with the rise/fall of the camera, so you can't center the lens on the tilt axis without using a proper board. Not that it is a huge problem, but it is a bit more intuitive to have the tilt axis centered on the lens properly. You can't really avoid refocusing after tilting either way, but it should require less adjustment if the lens is centered on the tilt axis.

I use that lens on 8x10. I think that is not a good lens for your camera. Try the Fujinon 125mm W lens.

Or the NW version -- you'll have THREE filter thread sizes to choose from -- 46mm, 52mm, and 55mm!!!

Michael Mutmansky said:

If you want/need the movement, you will have to get a bag bellows if the rear element group is interfering with the bellows when you move things around. If that's not possible on the Intrepid, you'll probably need to get a different lens or camera, depending on which is more important; having all the movement available in the lens, or shooting with a 120mm-125mm lens more generally.

Click to expand...

I don't know how much of a difference it makes but the Intrepid has a tapering bellows. Many 4x5 cameras have a bellows that is the same size front and back, which would make a little more room for the rear elements:

Intrepid:



Sinar: