Once opened, PQ Universal spoils pretty quickly.. Any remedies?

naaldvoerder · Jan 10, 2016

I find that once I open a 1 liter container of Ilfords PQ Universal it turns a brown collar pretty quickly. I suspect the child-safe cap does not keep air out of the bottle What do you do once you open a new bottle of developer? Pour it in another container? Glass pearls? Thank you.

images39 · Jan 10, 2016

Hi,

I used to use Ilford PQ and Multigrade paper developers, and noticed the same problem (turning brown quickly). Since I only print once or twice per month, it was impractical. I switched to Dektol, and the problem is solved. I believe it's cheaper, and it seems to last much longer for me.

Dale

removed account4 · Jan 10, 2016

ansco 130

once mixed it has a shelf life as a stock solution for over a year.
i used to buy 4 gallons at a time mix it all up at once and in a year and 2 months by some more.

ive never used ilford pq ... im using dektol these days, its not much cheaper than ansco130 unless i mix D72 up myself
both work well with caffenol.

Ko.Fe. · Jan 10, 2016

I have this problem with large PQ container. Have to use collapsing camping water container for storage.

Gerald C Koch · Jan 10, 2016

Ko.Fe. said:
I have this problem with large PQ container. Have to use collapsing camping water container for storage.

The plastic usually used in these containers (low density polyethylene LDPE) is permeable to oxygen. So they are not very good for developers. Use either glass or PET containers for the best shelf life.

Ilford seems to always have had a problem with storage life. Bottle caps have been implicated but there seems to be other problems.

pentaxuser · Jan 10, 2016

Can't speak about Ilford PQ as I have always used the MG developer but stock solution of the MG developer has lasted several years in winebags

I and someone else here on APUG whose name I cannot recall will begin to sound like records stuck the same groove but winebags make great airtight storage containers

pentaxuser

naaldvoerder · Jan 10, 2016

pentaxuser,

I'm sorry to make you repeat yourself. Are these wine bags that are in 1 liter variaty, inside cartons of wine in the supermarket?

Thanks

bvy · Jan 10, 2016

PQ is the only paper developer I use. I've noticed that it is still viable even after it turns dark -- though I've never tested it against fresh developer. Even so, I think it can't be a good thing. These days I decant the 500ml bottle into smaller "serving size" glass bottles (60ml and 120ml) filled to capacity. I get these from Specialty Bottle.

NB23 · Jan 11, 2016

Turning dark is supposed to mean what exactly? The developer is still good. That's my experience.

mesantacruz · Jan 11, 2016

NB23 said:
Turning dark is supposed to mean what exactly? The developer is still good. That's my experience.

That something has oxidized.... Which in turn might mean an image that wouldn't develop exactly the same way as it would with a fresh batch of pq.

Is this the case, it doesn't seem like it, but I too haven't tested against a fresh batch.

Xmas · Jan 11, 2016

NB23 said:
Turning dark is supposed to mean what exactly? The developer is still good. That's my experience.

Mine too with ilford products you write the date you open the bottle discard on elapsed time, or number of films, etc.
Never had a problem.

Rodinal or clones is like black coffee 24 hours after opening but ok after 24 years or so.

Brook Hill · Jan 11, 2016

I buy 5litres of PQ and decant it into 1 litre plastic bottles and squirt some Tetenal gas into the top of the bottle. I find the developer keeps its pale colour for over 18 months and works fine after this time. The same for Ilford MG. One can of gas lasts longer than this.

Tony

pdeeh · Jan 11, 2016

I make a litre of PQ from scratch from time to time . Mine stays OK to use for months, even down to the last dregs. Open developer will almost always show a bit of oxidation, but it doesn't mean it's dead or even dying.

Gerald C Koch · Jan 11, 2016

The oxidation products of developing agents are very dark brown So mild oxidation looks far worse than it actually is. You need to test the developer to see just how impaired it might be. There is also a possibility of print staining from dark developer.

Ian Grant · Jan 11, 2016

pdeeh said:
I make a litre of PQ from scratch from time to time . Mine stays OK to use for months, even down to the last dregs. Open developer will almost always show a bit of oxidation, but it doesn't mean it's dead or even dying.

I also make up my own PQ developers and they last months in old Ilford HD plastic bottles. The commercial products last as well as those from other manufacturers.

Ian

pentaxuser · Jan 11, 2016

naaldvoerder said:
pentaxuser,

I'm sorry to make you repeat yourself. Are these wine bags that are in 1 liter variaty, inside cartons of wine in the supermarket?

Thanks

Well in the U.K. they were nearly always 3L wine bags inside a cardboard box for support. In more recent times there are now a lot more 2.25L boxes. These are OK for some stuff but for the likes of 5L of stock you now need 3 boxes instead of two

If I couldn't get the 3L boxes I'd buy from wine homebrew companies who do sell 5 and even 10 L boxes Unfortunately I have no knowledge of the supply situation in the U.S.

My experience is that each wine bag can be used several times and the cardboard boxes if carefully opened and sealed each time to hold the bag can also be used several times

The key to the bag is prising off the dispenser tap carefully and patiently so that it isn't distorted

pentaxuser

mnemosyne · Jan 11, 2016

New wine bags ("bag in box") can be easily purchased in 3 liter or 5 liter sizes via Ebay, at least here in Germany and they are cheap. The material used for the bag is more or less impermeable to oxygen so it generally is a suitable choice for photochemistry. I have been using it with Xtol with good success for some years now. According to my recent findings Xtol will keep at least up to 12 months in these bags. Normally I use up my 5 liter batches within 6 months or so, but just two weeks ago I used the last rest of my current batch which I had prepared in mid December 2014. There had been only a small residual volume of about 200 milliliters left in the bag since last fall and I was first reluctant to use it at all, but did short test with a leader and the activity of the developer was normal, so I used for processing two films and everything was fine.

Vaughn · Jan 11, 2016

Since I only use it for film developing, I go thru the big container slowly -- so decanting into smaller bottles as soon as I open the big one keeps it long enough for me.

naaldvoerder · Jan 12, 2016

Thanks for your comments

Robert Dunn · Jan 30, 2016

When you decant chemicals into smaller bottles, do they need to be opaque, or will dark or even clear bottles work?

Gerald C Koch · Jan 30, 2016

Robert Dunn said:
When you decant chemicals into smaller bottles, do they need to be opaque, or will dark or even clear bottles work?

Theoretically it could cause problems. Developing agents will darken from light exposure. In practicality I would say don't worry.

Vaughn · Jan 30, 2016

Robert Dunn said:
When you decant chemicals into smaller bottles, do they need to be opaque, or will dark or even clear bottles work?

I haven't worried -- I just kept the bottles in the dark (cupboard and/or cardboard box.)

Ian Grant · Jan 31, 2016

It's daylight and particularly sunlight you need to avoid. artificial ight isn't a problem.

Ian

Ivo Stunga · May 3, 2018

Sorry for the necromancy, but here are my observations for developing film with PQ Universal (Ilford Reversal Processing):
- clear color - no issues at all
- sligtly yellow tint - good, but not as good as clear solution
- yellowish - starts to develop less, results in a tad darker overall picture
- healthy piss-like yellow - underdevelops the film quite a lot, dev time or concentration needs to be adjusted
- hungover piss-like color - just swallow the tears and pour that shit down the drain...

I must acquire those glass marbles I guess, I do not want to pour some ~100ml out because it's oxidised and no longer works on film properly, xexe

Have no experience on paper though.

saman13 · May 3, 2018

I opened my bottle of PQU back in October and it's a dark yellow color by now. I'm still happy with the prints I'm getting so I see no need to pour it down the drain.

Once opened, PQ Universal spoils pretty quickly.. Any remedies?

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