On/Off camera flash

maddermaxx · Jun 20, 2008

I'm looking to in the near-future purchase on/off camera lighting for my newly purchased EOS-1, and I was wondering if the newer digital flashes will work with a film camera? I know film camera flashes won't work on digital.

I just didn't know if the newer digital flashes such as a Vivitar 285HV would work on-camera?

Paul Howell · Jun 20, 2008

My Sigma flash works with my SD 10 and SA 9 and 7.

John Koehrer · Jun 20, 2008

285HV=Newer?
It's only been around 30years or so.

Lee L · Jun 20, 2008

I believe the 285HV was reintroduced recently after a break from production. I think the trigger voltage is now near 6 volts to be safe for the new digital cameras, but I haven't heard of any other features being changed to make it "digital". I have a "digital" lens cleaning cloth, but so far it appears to work on non-digital filters and glasses. Marketing hype can get in the way of understanding.

Lee

removed account4 · Jun 20, 2008

i think the main difference (besides reduction of trigger voltage ) is
that with newer flashes they have contacts that supply cameras
with through the lens metering information. it might be a crap-shoot to
see which flashes will or won't work, and which functions will and won't work.
.. on camera that is.
off camera, if you have a pc socket, my guess is that you can pretty much use any flash you want.

good luck!
john

Lee L · Jun 20, 2008

jnanian said:
i think the main difference (besides reduction of trigger voltage ) is that with newer flashes they have contacts that supply cameras with through the lens metering information.

The 285HV, even the newer version, does nothing with TTL, auto aperture setting, auto flash sync shutter speed, etc. It does have an auto-sensor cum thyristor to stop the exposure and recycle energy back to the capacitor, but no fancy communication with the camera except the triggering. The auto-sensor can be put on a remote cord, and the flash can also be set to fractional power outputs.

Certainly manufacturer's and other Vivitar flashes do those things since the mid-80's or so, but not the 285HV of any vintage.

Lee

maddermaxx · Jun 20, 2008

Hmm, for some reason I thought the 285HV was newer since it's got quite the hype with some photographers...

I'm mainly going to use them off-camera with triggers, but wanted to know if they'd work on-camera if I ever wanted a bounce flash etc.

removed account4 · Jun 20, 2008

Lee L said:
The 285HV, even the newer version, does nothing with TTL, auto aperture setting, auto flash sync shutter speed, etc. It does have an auto-sensor cum thyristor to stop the exposure and recycle energy back to the capacitor, but no fancy communication with the camera except the triggering. The auto-sensor can be put on a remote cord, and the flash can also be set to fractional power outputs.

Certainly manufacturer's and other Vivitar flashes do those things since the mid-80's or so, but not the 285HV of any vintage.

Lee

nice to know this.
thanks for setting me straight

john

Lee L · Jun 20, 2008

I think the appeal of the new version of the 285HV is that it can do fractional settings, has decent power output, and generally lends itself well to location shooting at a bargain price. It's about $90, as compared to the fancy TTL digital flashes that run three times that price or more. When using a flash meter, and especially when using a DSLR where you can view the overall flash balance and easily set levels before getting down to work, you can put together a three light 285HV flash setup for a few hundred dollars, as opposed to going to the $1000 mark with three manufacturers' dedicated "digital" TTL flashes. You can also get AC power adapters for under $20 for the 283 and 285HV that run the recycle time to under 5 seconds, a handy feature.

You've probably seen the "strobist" pages. If not, you should google and visit. Lots of good stuff there for DIY and lighting on a budget.

Lee

MattKing · Jun 20, 2008

You do need to be careful if you are using hotshoe contacts.

If you have a so called "dedicated" flash, or a camera with a hotshoe that works with a dedicated flash, those extra contacts in the shoe can cause problems if they don't match up.

Even if you intend to use the flash in manual mode, I would be hesitant to use a Nikon dedicated flash (e.g.) in a Canon hotshoe.

Matt

Lee L · Jun 20, 2008

MattKing said:
If you have a so called "dedicated" flash, or a camera with a hotshoe that works with a dedicated flash, those extra contacts in the shoe can cause problems if they don't match up.

Perhaps that's another reason that the single-pin hot shoe on the 285HV is being talked up so much lately. You can use it across camera brands if you have multiple systems in the same or varying formats, and don't have to buy an entirely different flash system for each camera system.

Lee

eddym · Jun 20, 2008

maddermaxx said:
I know film camera flashes won't work on digital.

How do you know that?

maddermaxx · Jun 23, 2008

eddym said:
How do you know that?

Well, luckily not from experience.. Just heard that the voltages are wrong and a film camera flash would kill a digi camera.

So, what's the verdict? Can digital flashes be used on film cameras? Could I throw a 580EX II on my EOS-1 if I ever got the itch to do so?

Lee L · Jun 23, 2008

Most newer film and digital cameras with lower trigger voltages indicate safe trigger voltages in their instruction or specification sheets. Modern flashes, shoemount, monolight, or studio pack lights will also supply this info. I've also seen flash trigger voltages listed on the internet for new and vintage equipment.

Check your camera's requirements against the flashes you're considering.

As mentioned earlier, the new version of the 285HV is on the order of 6V, compatible with most newer cameras.

Lee

DWThomas · Jun 23, 2008

I would be concerned that even some of the ultra-fancy film cameras containing a lot of electronic "magic" might be susceptible to problems from older flash units. Anything that tries to fire the flash electronically instead of with hardware contacts might not appreciate hundreds of volts being applied. For that matter, even the old contacts would probably be happier with a lower level trigger.

One list of vintage flashes is here. I was pleasantly surprised to see that my old Canon 188A I use on my A-1 is apparently safe -- that's been around quite a while. Such beasties don't support newer, more exotic control modes though.

DaveT

eddym · Jun 23, 2008

maddermaxx said:
Well, luckily not from experience.. Just heard that the voltages are wrong and a film camera flash would kill a digi camera.

So, what's the verdict? Can digital flashes be used on film cameras? Could I throw a 580EX II on my EOS-1 if I ever got the itch to do so?

I was going to give you a link to find out, but DWThomas beat me to it.

My little mini-rant (and please don't think it's aimed at you) is that there is no such thing as "digital flashes." It seems these days that the manufacturers think they can't sell anything photographic if it doesn't have the word "digital" attached. Thus we see digital tripods, digital backpacks, digital lens tissue, digital toilet paper...

Oops, I wasn't supposed to say "d*****'" here, was I?

On/Off camera flash

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