On Acutance?

AlanC said:

Hello Tom,
I agree, there are no easy "fits all" options are they? Non-photographers don't realise what problems we have!
I am fully in tune with your comments about trying to get just the right degree of grain into 35mm prints, though this in itself varies according to print size, as you say. I quite like HP5+ in rodinal for 35mm landscapes, but for other subjects I find the grain gets in the way of the subject. So for a farm study I'm doing I develop HP5 in ID11 1+3.
Just started trying 35mm Delta 100 in Rodinal and contrary to expectations this does have a bit of grain and grit.-I thought it would be too smooth. It is also very sharp.

Alan Clark

Click to expand...

One of the things I like about delta 100 is that it has decent inherent acutance (unlike Tmax100 and Acros). I have been experimenting with a delta 100 + xtol + rodinal mix and the grain is still moderately fine but just that bit more visble than xtol alone. There is also a bit more bite.

I was skeptical of the rodinal xtol brew but it seems pretty bulletproof really and has not given any weird or unpredictable results. Neopan 400 is spectacular in both 120 and 35mm. TriX gives a bit more grain and looks amazing in 35mm for certain things. I am excited about the ability to use this as a variable brew, with the option of either straight and various permutations in between. The reality is i dont want things to be complicated, but find this is giving me more of the look I have been looking for for a very long time than anything else. It is also cheap.

A quick comment on FX-39: this gives more acutance than rodinal - no doubt about that (more true acutance anyway), but as commented by others, this can look a little too edgy if you are not careful. The rodinal gives a more irregular gravelly look. mixed with Xtol you get an average of the two it seems, but the look is somehow more traditional than FX-39 (which also mixes with Xtol nicely). The much more aggressive edge effects with FX-39 can look a touch unpelasant with faster films if enlarged a fair bit, so you don't get to enjoy the grain. The mix of rodinal and xtol produces a nice grain pattern and the grain is not ultra crisp and uniform in the same way it is with FX-39. Just looks darned good and when I am home I will look at uploading some examples

So far I have played around with the following:

Xtol 1+2 + rodinal 1+100 made up to the total volume for Xto 1+2
Xtol 1+3 + rodinal 1+100

Unsurprisingly, the fist option has finer grain as the dev time comes down a little and I guess the Xtol is doing more of the work. not s huge difference but with 35mm it is there. Rodinal is so crude that as soon as it does even a little more of the work you see the difference.

I might also try Xtol 1+2 + rodinal 1+200 for a very subtle effect, but compare this with Xtol 1+3 alone. I suspect there will still be a fair difference.

Foma 100 & 200 look really good in the mix too.

Tom - Maybe a stupid question but when you mix the xtol and rodinal am I right in assuming that you use the Rodinal 1+100 solution, instead of the usual water) to dilute the xtol to 1+2?

Only ask because xtol 1+1 and Rodinal 1+100 are my favorite developers.

Bob

I don't have Xtol on hand, but I have found an improvement in Rodinal when I added a couple of grams of sodium ascorbate to a liter of 1+50 Rodinal. If it is the ascorbate in Xtol that is doing the job, you could save some coin of the realm by adding some ascorbate to Rodinal. It might be worth a try on some rainy day.

I put the xtol concentrate stock in a beaker (200ml, if doing it 1+2 with a total required volume of 600ml), then add 6ml rodinal and make up to 600ml.

I am not sure whether it is the ascorbate or not, but it seems to me that the Xtol is doing most of the work (some who use a 1+4 dilution of Xtol may find the balance swings more towards Rodinal). dev times are down a bit on regular 1+2 times; maybe 25% or less. Grain is certainly more noticeable, but it is not too bad. Looks great with TriX and Neopan 400 when you want grain but not out of control grain, so resolution is not too badly affected. with 35mm TriX the grain is certainly not going to be missed but it is not the very salt and pepper grain (black and white speckles) you get with Rodinal alone. To me, the image does not break up as much. In Delta 100, using my ZM lenses, the images retain incredible resolution, but with a little more bite and more grain, which is what I want. It really is a half way house, but one which looks good. I am sure there would be other straight devs which give similar results but the nice thing is by having two devs, one of which lasts forever and both of which are cheap, you have a lot of flexibility available.

I am still broadly keeping to 100ml xtol per roll, but have dipped to about 85ml in some cases when using Xrtol 1+3 with rodinal added on the basis that the rodinal is doing some of the work. very scientific I know LOL. but it works and looks darned good I think.

Interesting idea Tom. Will give it a go.

Alan Clark

I'm up for this! As for the science, my duly considered and carefully researched scientific theory is "if it works for me it's ma scientific fact!" I just know PE and Gainer are sharpening their knives for me now!!!!!!!

Not Gainer. Science is what you learn after you find something that works, or while you are looking for that thing. Serendipity, it is called. I think PE will agree that many scientific advances result from happy (or even unhappy) experiences. You could even say all experiments are planned experiences. Read any treatise on "The Scientific Method."