Olympus OM2n shutter question

[Thwyllo]

I haven't run films through either camera yet but I recently acquired a mint OM2n body to join another one I had which needs a new rewind spindle (busted spring).

First thing I noticed was the shutter (bear in mind I hadn't sat down and read the manual at this stage! - I have a LOT of cameras). When I tried to fire the shutter on the new body it wouldn't operate....just locked up the mirror and only fired when I moved the selector to Check/Reset. It wasn't until I read the manual that I realised this is correct...the shutter doesn't fire at all without batteries. so I popped a pair in and bingo, all good.

But the body I already had (which has an earlier serial number and some very minor cosmetic differences - for example the B in the B LOCK descriptor on the lens mount is red as opposed to black on the newer body) works slightly differently. It fires without batteries at ALL settings of the selector lever (Manual, Auto or Off) but at what seems to be a single speed, I'm guessing around 1/125th - none of the mirror lock-up business. And when I put batteries in, it seems to meter and fire properly at all speeds.

So my question is, is this a 'fault' with the earlier body (hopefully not one that affects its use) or have other folk with OM2Ns seen similar behaviour on their cameras?

 

[MattKing]

I think that the earlier camera has a problem - it shouldn't do that.
Are you sure that they are both OM-2n's - not OM-2?

 

[Thwyllo]

Nope definitely identical OM2n's but some time apart as regards manufacturing. I suspect it will be fine with a film in it as the various shutter speeds sound right when the older one has batteries in, but it's just a puzzle.

I just wish I knew what stops the shutter firing on a body with no batteries....is it just because it's not powered or is there a circuit that actively blocks it somehow - and yet still allows it to fire properly in B mode? I don't really see the logic in having a manual mode that again you can't use without a battery, unlike say the Nikon FE, I just find it a bit odd.

 

[MattKing]

The shutter is electronically controlled on an OM-2n - not mechanically. Excepting the mechanical Bulb setting, those shutter speed settings control the electronics, not the shutter itself.
To add battery independent shutter speeds to the mix, you have to add mechanical linkages, which might have been difficult to put together with the design goal that the camera be able to give you correct automatic exposure even when the metering switch is in the off position.
The implementation of that design goal was considered to be revolutionary when it happened - I can personally confirm that it helped make an already very popular camera even easier to sell to customers.
I'm guessing that when you think the no-battery older body is giving you a selection of shutter speeds, you are actually seeing the Bulb function happening - when it isn't supposed to.

 

[Thwyllo]

I'm guessing that when you think the no-battery older body is giving you a selection of shutter speeds, you are actually seeing the Bulb function happening - when it isn't supposed to.

So my question is, if the shutter is electronically controlled (by which I assume you mean electromechanical, otherwise it wouldn't need cocking, because 2xLR44s aren't going to last long otherwise) how is it managing to fire at all with no battery? It definitely isn't firing as it does in B mode, it's going off at a constant 1/60 or 1/125, regardless of whatever speed I have set on the shutter speed ring.

Having done some digging I've seen several people experiencing the same issue but with no actual resulting fault apparent..their cameras expose a film properly when batteries are installed.

Just one of those weird things I guess but I'm one of those people who don't like not knowing )

I really like the Olympus aesthetics and especially the shutter release but if I wanted one that could be used in fully manual mode if batteries and or metering died (like my Nikon FEs), what's the model to go for?

 

[MattKing]

if I wanted one that could be used in fully manual mode if batteries and or metering died (like my Nikon FEs), what's the model to go for?

There are no automatic exposure capable OM bodies that offer manual without batteries.
The two models that operate manually without batteries are the OM-1/OM-1-md/OM-1n and the newer and much more rare and expensive OM-3.
And I expect it actually is essentially in B mode when it is misfiring - it is just that it isn't staying open once it is released.

 

[Les Sarile]

There are no automatic exposure capable OM bodies that offer manual without batteries.
The two models that operate manually without batteries are the OM-1/OM-1-md/OM-1n and the newer and much more rare and expensive OM-3.
And I expect it actually is essentially in B mode when it is misfiring - it is just that it isn't staying open once it is released.

I just confirmed this on mine. The OM-4 has two completely mechanical shutter speeds 1/60 and B. With batteries depleted/removed these two settings will always be able to fire the shutter. On all other shutter speed settings - including a 1/60 electronic setting, and the batteries go dead, the mirror will stay up as expected. To release it, you will set the shutter on either mechanical settings of 1/60 or B, and press the reset button underneath.

OM-4T profile by Les DMess, on Flickr

 

[Les Sarile]

So my question is, if the shutter is electronically controlled (by which I assume you mean electromechanical, otherwise it wouldn't need cocking, because 2xLR44s aren't going to last long otherwise) how is it managing to fire at all with no battery? It definitely isn't firing as it does in B mode, it's going off at a constant 1/60 or 1/125, regardless of whatever speed I have set on the shutter speed ring.

Having done some digging I've seen several people experiencing the same issue but with no actual resulting fault apparent..their cameras expose a film properly when batteries are installed.

Just one of those weird things I guess but I'm one of those people who don't like not knowing )

I really like the Olympus aesthetics and especially the shutter release but if I wanted one that could be used in fully manual mode if batteries and or metering died (like my Nikon FEs), what's the model to go for?

The OM-4 acts more like the FE/FE2 in that there are two mechanical shutter speeds that will allow you to operate the camera if batteries die - B and sync speed. Of course the OM4 has a far more sohphisticated spot meter then any other manual focus camera. The OM3 has the sophisticated metering of the OM4 but no aperture priority autoexposure and has all shutter speeds available when batteries die.

OM-3_f1.2 by Les DMess, on Flickr

There are a couple of cameras that have aperture priority autoexposure and sync speed + all lower speeds available when batteries die and those are the Canon New F1 and Pentax LX.

Kodak Gold 100-7_30-34 by Les DMess, on Flickr

LX_50mm f1.2 by Les DMess, on Flickr

If you want aperture priority autoexposure and all shutter speeds available when batteries die then only the Nikon FM3A has this feature.

FM3A_50MMF1.2 by Les DMess, on Flickr

 

[Kodachromeguy]

The Pentax ESII offered mechanical B and 1/60 - 1/1000. Electronically-controlled speeds were 8 sec - 1/1000.

https://mikeeckman.com/2016/04/asahi-pentax-es-ii-1974/

 

[MattKing]

The OM-2s also offers the mechanical 1/60 of a second.