Ole's Quick Fix

[jim appleyard]

Hey Ole, are you still around? Looking to mix up your Quick Fix and wondering about times for both RC and FB papers.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

I'd suggest contacting him directly. Ole hasn't been here for almost a year and a half:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/members/ole.121/​

 

[jim appleyard]

Right, thanks, but I don't see a place to leave a message. Anyone else use this fixer?

 

[MattKing]

You could "Start a Conversation" with Ole, and see what happens.

 

[jim appleyard]

Ok, found that and sent. We'll see what he says and will share the info.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Ok, found that and sent. We'll see what he says and will share the info.

Jim are you talking about a mix from scratch fix.. I would be interested in that as well..from my experience (years ago) I did not find much difference in $$$ mixing my own and using Ilford Rapid fix from the bottle.

 

[jim appleyard]

Jim are you talking about a mix from scratch fix.. I would be interested in that as well..from my experience (years ago) I did not find much difference in $$$ mixing my own and using Ilford Rapid fix from the bottle.

Yes, mix from scratch. There may not be much of a difference in price, but I just like to mix my own. I find it fun to play evil scientist and I never run out of chems to make more. Artcraft Chemicals is about 1 hour away and I help in supporting a local business. Good service from Mike, too.

 

[jim appleyard]

Bob, here is SOME info about. I'll see if I can find the actual recipe as well. I can't find any times posted for paper, but we all know for film to take a scrap piece and put it in the fix and at least double the clearing time.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/oles-quick-fix-of-1.23555/

 

[MattKing]

The recipe is on the Overview tab of the link that Jim posted.
Quoting here:
"Here's one version of my akaline buffered "rapidized" fix - quantities are not critical. I use cups, spoons and dashes...

The metaborate can be used for anything, the bicarbonate version should not be used with acid stop or other acidic bath in the process (gas bubbles should be avoided!)

Mixed correctly(ish), the effect is almost as good as TF-4, and the ammonia odor is far less noticable. If it stinks too much, use less alkali next time. It can be almost odorless...

600 ml water
220g Sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate
30 g Sodium sulfite anhydrous
40 g ammonium chloride
20 cl Sodium metaborate 10% solution
OR 5 g Sodium bicarbonate

Water to 1 liter."

 

[Rudeofus]

IIRC Ole's formula gives you slightly alkaline fixer, which can be incredibly useful for pyro/catechol negatives. If you can get Sodium Thiosulfate for much less than Ammonium Thiosulfate, then such a fixer certainly makes sense. I personally didn't like the Ammonia smell of these alkaline fixers, therefore I reformulated this fixer to neutral pH, and I have used the neutral version for years for photographic paper.

 

[Bob Carnie]

For my needs it needs to be much cheaper than buying the Hypam or Rapid Fix in the 5 litre containers to make it worth doing from scratch.... developers , hypo clear are way cheaper... but I never found a fix that is cheaper.

 

[jim appleyard]

Thanks Matt & Rudeofus. I think this would be cost effective for me as Artcraft has been out of liquid Ammon. Thio for some time (Mike said it was because it's also used as fertilizer by farmers and we've had a rainy spring here in the NE US). Anyway, I can get liquid Ammon. Thio from Formulary, but shipping from Montana (1 gallon liquid) might be cost prohibitive. I CAN get the other dry chems from Artcraft.

I also do some pyro negs and the alkaline would be nice.

Rudeofus, what are your times for RC & FB papers?

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

I reformulated this fixer to neutral pH,

Rudy, at pH 6.5 your fixer appears to be a good fit for C41 processing too. Have you used it and found that it works fine?

 

[Rudeofus]

There are two facts about C-41 film which makes me unsure:

1. C-41 is high in iodide, and Sodium Thiosulfate is known to have much less capacity in the presence of high iodide levels
2. C-41 use DIR couplers, and I don't know how well Sodium Thiosulfate copes with the highly insoluble silver salts created by them.

The only way I think this can be resolved is proper testing, which I have not done yet.
I have used this neutral Sodium Thiosulfate plus Ammonium Chloride fixer extensively for photographic prints but not for film.

 

[Rudeofus]

For my needs it needs to be much cheaper than buying the Hypam or Rapid Fix in the 5 litre containers to make it worth doing from scratch.... developers , hypo clear are way cheaper... but I never found a fix that is cheaper.

I got two 25kg sacks of Sodium Thiosulfate and one 25 kg of Ammonium Chloride for about 100€. These 50 kg Sodium Thiosulfate make 250 liters of fixer. Compared to that, 20 liters of rapid fixer concentrate cost about the same, but make only 100 liters of fixer. The price difference is not dramatic, but it's there.

 

[Rudeofus]

Rudeofus, what are your times for RC & FB papers?

My times for RC&PE papers are "leave it in there until I get bored or need space in the fixer tray". I did measure clearing speed of my rapid fixer with Fuji Neopan Acros 100 and with Kodak Tri-X, and its clearing time is marginally slower than rapid fixer.

Since the fixer is neutral, it doesn't bleach silver, and my prints always get at least 30 minutes of wash time at 25° or higher.

Before anyone dives into these Sodium Thiosulfate plus Ammonium Chloride fixers: be aware, that Sodium, Thiosulfate, Silver and halides can form highly insoluble mixed salts as the silver halide concentration goes up. Even if a Sodium Thiosulfate plus Ammonium Chloride fixer offers comparable clearing speeds, it will have lower capacity than rapid fixers. These Sodium Thiosulfate plus Ammonium Chloride fixers are aimed at frugal photo amateurs with low throughput, not at high volume pro labs!

 

[jim appleyard]

Thanks!

 

[Bob Carnie]

I got two 25kg sacks of Sodium Thiosulfate and one 25 kg of Ammonium Chloride for about 100€. These 50 kg Sodium Thiosulfate make 250 liters of fixer. Compared to that, 20 liters of rapid fixer concentrate cost about the same, but make only 100 liters of fixer. The price difference is not dramatic, but it's there.

Your formula is it a rapid fix... this is a significant saving something I should consider.

 

[Rudeofus]

Your formula is it a rapid fix... this is a significant saving something I should consider.

While it has roughly the same fixing speed as commercial rapid fixers, it contains about one mol of sodium ion per liter, which brings about the issues I detailed in posting #16 here.

 

[Alan Johnson]

My times for RC&PE papers are "leave it in there until I get bored or need space in the fixer tray". I did measure clearing speed of my rapid fixer with Fuji Neopan Acros 100 and with Kodak Tri-X, and its clearing time is marginally slower than rapid fixer.

Since the fixer is neutral, it doesn't bleach silver, and my prints always get at least 30 minutes of wash time at 25° or higher.

Before anyone dives into these Sodium Thiosulfate plus Ammonium Chloride fixers: be aware, that Sodium, Thiosulfate, Silver and halides can form highly insoluble mixed salts as the silver halide concentration goes up. Even if a Sodium Thiosulfate plus Ammonium Chloride fixer offers comparable clearing speeds, it will have lower capacity than rapid fixers. These Sodium Thiosulfate plus Ammonium Chloride fixers are aimed at frugal photo amateurs with low throughput, not at high volume pro labs!

Once I mixed up Agfa 304 fixer, containing sodium thiosulfate and ammonium chloride, and found that it did indeed have low capacity as it formed a cloudy solution not suited to reuse several times, which is how I use proprietary fixer.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Jim are you talking about a mix from scratch fix.. I would be interested in that as well..from my experience (years ago) I did not find much difference in $$$ mixing my own and using Ilford Rapid fix from the bottle.

there isn't much difference in cost;might as well buy the Ilford fixer.

 

[Bob Carnie]

there isn't much difference in cost;might as well buy the Ilford fixer.

Thanks Ralph that is what I found years ago ... and a lot of work to boot.

 

[Rudeofus]

Once I mixed up Agfa 304 fixer, containing sodium thiosulfate and ammonium chloride, and found that it did indeed have low capacity as it formed a cloudy solution not suited to reuse several times, which is how I use proprietary fixer.

Agfa 304 is very acidic, so it will not last. That cloudy precipitate was likely Sulfur, not the mixed salt I wrote about.