Old vinegar bottles for storage?

monkeykoder · Oct 7, 2008

Would there be any realistic issue with storing developer in old vinegar bottles? They seem like they would be perfect containers for chemical storage but I was wondering if there might be some minute chance that enough vinegar is left after a couple of washes to do anything to the developer (I'm thinking not but want to be sure before I try).

kodachrome64 · Oct 7, 2008

I would actually think it to be a terrible idea. I think this topic comes up from time to time and the general consensus is that you can't ever truly clean a plastic bottle, and that the best thing to do is only use them for one chemical throughout their life. So you wouldn't store developer in a bottle that once housed stop bath, fixer, or vice-versa. So whether it is old motor oil bottles or old vinegar bottles, I just don't think it is worth it. Amber colored Boston Round bottles can be had for around $1 each, and they will last a lifetime and don't retain chemicals in the glass...you can just rinse them out and go. That's what I would do. The only bottles I use are 8 oz Ozarka water bottles which I use for storing one-shot quantities of XTOL and D-76 because I don't want to use glass bottles. I would not reuse anything but water bottles.

Trevor Crone · Oct 7, 2008

You're thinking of using the amber glass bottles not the clear? If so I can't see this being an issue as long as they've had a good wash in several changes of clean water. If you're concerned that some acid may remain rinse/soak them in a weak solution of sodium bicarbonate (weak alkali) then rinse again in several changes of clean water.

kodachrome64 · Oct 7, 2008

Wait...I assumed it was plastic vinegar bottles you were referring to, since that's how I see most vinegar. I didn't even think about glass. If it's glass, no real issue I suppose. I don't think plastic is worth messing with.

rwyoung · Oct 7, 2008

Clear glass bottles are fine. Clean well and if it is a solution that can breakdown from light exposure, store somewhere it won't be exposed to light. In a box, cupboard, closet, etc. are fine.

And label clearly.

Vinegar and oil makes a good salad dressing. Dektol and oil does NOT make a good salad dressing.

Trevor Crone · Oct 7, 2008

Yes, be cautious of using plastic bottles, they are more difficult to clean thoroughly.

In the labs I worked in we regularly recycled glass bottles for reuse (especially amber glass, expensive to buy) which contained highly concentrated chemicals such as hydrochloric, sulphuric and ethanoic acid (the main ingredient in vinegar). As long as the bottles are thoroughly washed in several changes of clean water there is not normally a problem. If you're really, really concerned then a final rinse in several changes of distilled or deionised water and the last rinse tested with pH paper or pH meter, just to reassure yourself. But this is probably a little OTT.

PhotoJim · Oct 7, 2008

Using them for stop bath and fixer would be fine. Most fixers already contain a small amount of acetic acid (the active ingredient in vinegar) anyway.

I honestly suspect it would be fine to use the bottles for developer, too, but you would want to rinse them very carefully. Rinsing them with hot water several times, draining them, and then filling them with hot water again and letting the water stand for a few days, then repeating the procedure a couple more times will likely dilute the residual acid level to the point where it won't have any tangible effect on your developers. A few residual molecules aren't going to taint your developer, but if you're not careful about the rinsing it could shorten the lifespan of your developers.

WarEaglemtn · Oct 7, 2008

The glass bottles clean easily. You can tape them to prevent light as well as pad against knocks and breakage if you want.

fschifano · Oct 7, 2008

Let's not be equivocal about it at all. I use these glass vinegar bottles for all sorts of things. No problems at all. They wash out cleanly with a couple of plain water rinses and no other precautions are necessary. Mostly, I use recycled soda pop bottles though because they won't shatter if I drop one. Developer storage is not a problem with these either.

I'm amazed at how some folks like to make things more complicated than they need to be. I'll be these are the same folks who wear suspenders (braces to you Brits) and belts just in case.

pentaxuser · Oct 7, 2008

If it's cheapness and health combined that you are after, I'd go for the Boots Cod Liver Oil bottles. OK it takes a while to empty a 500 ml bottle at 10ml per day but it's still 7 bottles a year. I have managed to get through a few bottles this way. I am now so attuned with the sea that I can match a dolphin over 100 metres. He has the advantage over the Channel run.

pentaxuser

Trevor Crone · Oct 7, 2008

fschifano said:
I'm amazed at how some folks like to make things more complicated than they need to be. I'll be these are the same folks who wear suspenders (braces to you Brits) and belts just in case.

You must excuse me, old habits die hard, its what becomes of working in laboratories for 40 years when you are expected to test then test again. You're right about the belts and braces, even though I wore glasses I also had to wear safety specs. as well.

Claire Senft · Oct 7, 2008

I am a believer in being prepared. Suspenders, belt and Depends does it for me.

brass majestic · Oct 7, 2008

Here's a post on a similar thread:
On the subject of using brown glass bottles; If you've ever in your life noticed, many brands of beer and wine are sold in dark brown bottles with screw tops. I have several 40 oz beer bottles and 750 L wine bottles. As some of us may also know, wine bottles can be very decorative in their designs and can really "dress up" your darkroom shelves. They all do have to be thoroughly rinsed out to get rid of lingering odors, especially wine.
On cleaning out bottles with developer stains, etc inside; Bleach is good. I have also used sulfuric acid in extremely small amounts mixed with water FIRST before pouring into the bottle and letting that sit for a while. But this stuff is very toxic and every caution should be followed. At first I made the mistake of pouring some straight sulfuric acid right into a glass bottle and immediately the bottle cracked and the bottom fell out. I use bleach now and a good bottle brush.
Good Luck, Russ
brass majestic is online now Reply With Quote

monkeykoder · Oct 7, 2008

Thanks for the advice. Yes I was talking about the plastic bottles but this actually gave me an idea old apple juice bottles.

pauliej · Oct 9, 2008

I "assume" that washed/rinsed-out milk and soda-pop plastic bottles (gallon milk, 2-liter soda) are ok for these purposes. If not can someone please advise? I understand they need to be labeled clearly, and stored in dark cabinets, etc. Thanks for all your help and assistance.

Paul

Ian Grant · Oct 9, 2008

I use very robust plastic storage bottles for 2.5 litres of Developer & Fixer, they originally contained concentrated Hydrochloric & Nitric acid and are easy to purge out leaving no trace of the original use. I use black for Dev, Opaque for stop & fix.

However some plastics are not good for long term storage of Developer, and the translucent containers used for vinegar in the UK and similar plastic bottles allow some oxidation to take place over a period of a few months.

Ian

michaelbsc · Oct 9, 2008

brass majestic said:
Here's a post on a similar thread:
On the subject of using brown glass bottles; If you've ever in your life noticed, many brands of beer and wine are sold in dark brown bottles with screw tops. I have several 40 oz beer bottles and 750 L wine bottles. As some of us may also know, wine bottles can be very decorative in their designs and can really "dress up" your darkroom shelves.

WOW!! A 750 L wine bottle. Man you must throw some interesting parties at your place!

eli griggs · Oct 9, 2008

I have been using the heavy plastic Ragu jars, the ones with hand-holds, for awhile now and I've had no problems whatsoever other than the mold that I stupidly allowed to grow in some forgotten Photoflo solution.

I do make sure they are super clean by multi-able washings that include baking soda in the dish detergent and I isolate the chemical from the metal/plastic lid with Saran Wrap. So far fixer, selenium toner solution, etc have done well in this storage.

Because I mix most film developers as needed and store my Ansco 130 and PMK Pyro stock solutions in glass, I feel that reusing these plastic bottles is a safe move.

I have however, noticed on my late night walks with my dog that a neighbors recycling bin has a weekly deposit of extra large, thick wine bottles, several of which are a dark brown. Tonight I'll begin raiding this resource as you never know when you'll want good glass storage.

Cheers

Jim Noel · Oct 9, 2008

If they are glass drop a Polident tablet in and let it do its work. Rinse 3 or 4 times with plain water (make the last one distilled if you are picky).
If they are plastic, store only fixer in them.

eli griggs · Oct 10, 2008

Jim, I've not heard of the Polident table method before; what does it do that a good hot washing won't?

Incidentally, I scored two heavy weight 1½ liter wine bottles last night in my investigation of a unknown neighbors' recycling bin. They are only in dark green and I think there was at least one nice brown one nearer the bottom of the tub, but he/she filled the thing with Mexican beer bottles and at Midnight, people don't want to look out and see a fat man and his hound rummaging about in their trash

Besides, with four or five recycling pick-ups each month, I can wait...

Cheers

Old vinegar bottles for storage?

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