Old versus Current Oriental Seagul. Differences ?

Daniel Grenier · Dec 3, 2005

Hi there.

Back in the 80s, I used Oriental Seagull (FB Graded) exclusively. And then, it kind of disappeared for a while. I have a lot of negs I would like to replicate on the current Seagull hoping for the same look and feel. Question is, is the current stuff exactly like the old stuff? If not, how does it differ ?

Thanks

ann · Dec 3, 2005

exactly, don't think so, as the orginal had cadium and that is no longer allowed by law.

We use a great deal of the newer paper with great results. Get a 20 sheet pack and try it yourself.

Have heard some great feedback about the Kentmere papers as well.

Tom Hoskinson · Dec 3, 2005

ann said:
exactly, don't think so, as the orginal had cadium and that is no longer allowed by law.

We use a great deal of the newer paper with great results. Get a 20 sheet pack and try it yourself.

Have heard some great feedback about the Kentmere papers as well.

I've also heard great things about Kentmere. Since Azo has become an endangered species - headed for extinction - I just ordered some Kentmere ChloroBromide from Freestyle and will be comparing it against Adox (J&C Exhibition)

Wayne · Dec 3, 2005

ann said:
exactly, don't think so, as the orginal had cadium and that is no longer allowed by law.

We use a great deal of the newer paper with great results. Get a 20 sheet pack and try it yourself.

Have heard some great feedback about the Kentmere papers as well.

I have noticed a number of times that you say "we" do this or "we" use that. Do you mind my asking who "we" is? or should I know?

PeterB · Dec 4, 2005

Daniel Grenier said:
Hi there.

Back in the 80s, I used Oriental Seagull (FB Graded) exclusively. And then, it kind of disappeared for a while. I have a lot of negs I would like to replicate on the current Seagull hoping for the same look and feel. Question is, is the current stuff exactly like the old stuff? If not, how does it differ ?

Thanks

Hi Daniel,
I also used the original stuff, so when it made a comeback I got excited about using the newer version only to be very dissapointed. Refer to my previous post here (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Of course I know others have had success with it, but the experience I had shows me that their quality control is/was out the window and unless they can show me otherwise, I wouldn't waste my time with them again. I suspect the problems that I saw arose from the fact that Cybergraphics (the owner of the brand New Seagull) relied on another company to coat their paper and so for a while they had lost control of their process. As for how I think it differs from the old Seagull - well I really need Cybergraphics to ship me a decent batch before I'd even think about comparing it (they've already tried this once but they sent me the same batch with the same problem so I gave up)

regards
Peter

PeterB · Dec 4, 2005

Daniel,
I forgot to mention that a guy named Peter Hogan from http://www.monochromephotography.com/ gave a critique of the new Oriental Seagull paper, read about it here http://www.silverprint.co.uk/paper2.html and here (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

regards
Peter

haziz · Dec 4, 2005

Daniel Grenier said:
Hi there.

Back in the 80s, I used Oriental Seagull (FB Graded) exclusively. And then, it kind of disappeared for a while. I have a lot of negs I would like to replicate on the current Seagull hoping for the same look and feel. Question is, is the current stuff exactly like the old stuff? If not, how does it differ ?

Thanks

The last several boxes of Grades 2 and 3 I ordered from BandH here in the US showed up labelled as GF-2 and GF-3. The old version was labelled G2 and G3. I never used the stuff in the eighties. Unfortunately I am getting interested in the darkroom just as everybody is abandoning it. The G2 and G3 versions were available untill late 2004 early 2005.

While at Photo-Expo in NYC in late October, I asked at the Oriental distributor booth and they did confirm that the emulsion is changed though they did not mention anything about the manufacturer being different. The Grade 4 is discontinued, though they said they had about 2 months supply in the warehouse.

I did build up a stash of Grade 4 and got the old version (G4) but unfortunately I am not sure where to get a stash of the old version grades 2 and 3 (G2 and G3)?

The new version (GF-2 and GF-3) does appear slightly warmer than the old version which was a very cold paper (which I like) but the new version is still in the neutral range and is not a bad paper.

Does anybody know of a vendor or store that still has stock of the old version grades 2 or 3 (labelled G2 and G3)

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Hany.

ann · Dec 4, 2005

wayne,

the " we" refers to myself, students and other photographers who take classes with me.

When i respond to a thread and know i am speaking just for myself I would indicate that by the use of "I", when that comment reflects the thoughts of others then I indicate that by the use of "we"

And there is no reason you should know that.

Hope that clears things up for you .

regards,
ann

Ed Pierce · Dec 5, 2005

I too was surprised when I ordered some Seagull G and got GF. Is it the same? Definelitely not. The tone when developed in Dektol 1+2 or Zone VI 1+3 is much warmer. There are other differences also. By the way, they've also replaced their VC-FB with VC-FBII, which is also quite different.

This is disapointing enough, but what really gets me is the apparent secrecy about the change. The websites of the retailers where I normally order my paper still show it as Seagull G. Even the Oriental USA website says it's G, although the picture shows a box of GF and the data listed is for GF.

I've emailed Oriental USA about this and they did not reply.

They've got a lot of mileage over the years out of being mentioned in "The Print". Have they intentionally kept these changes quiet in order to keep it going? Seems to me though that their free ride is coming to an end. Did they honestly think none of us would notice or care?

Ole · Dec 5, 2005

Which of the older versions of Oriental Seagull are you comparing to?
The "original" one, the "New Oriental Seagull" with the multicoloured label, the new "Oriental Seagull" with the big black blob?

dancqu · Dec 7, 2005

Daniel Grenier said:
Hi there.
Back in the 80s, I used Oriental Seagull (FB Graded)
exclusively. And then, it kind of disappeared for a while.
Thanks

Shopping for sources I came across
www.central-camera.com . They are a
Chicago dealer. Huge selection of Bergger,
Forte, Ilford, and Oriental. For those that go
for RC, Oriental has the greatest selection of
Graded RC I've ever seen. Grades 2, 3, and 4
in 3 surfaces. Give them a look. Dan

User Removed · Dec 7, 2005

I have used both the old Oriental (from about the 70's-80's I believe. Some baby blue box, some white and baby blue box) and I have also used the new Oriental with the black circle. I have also used an oriental paper that was in a silver package, not sure of the date.

I am not one to do tests and all that stuff, but a few things I observed was the new Seagull was ALOT warmer (when developed in Dektol) compaired to the older Seagull that was cool tone.

The newer papers seemed somewhat "lifeless" also, and did not have the same quality to it.

However, I still think the new oriental is decent paper, and have seen many great prints on it. I suggest buying a small pack and see how you like it!

Old versus Current Oriental Seagul. Differences ?

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