Old Shutters & Wonderful Round Apertures -- Retrofit Modern Lenses To Old Shutters

Old-N-Feeble · Jul 7, 2014

Has anyone done this... fit their modern lenses to older shutters with nicely round apertures? I know it's pricey especially if having several retrofitted by a competent technician but the smoother OOF areas might be worth the cost. Yes, I know many vintage optics are available with excellent bokeh, most notably heliars, tessars and dyalites, and I know having a round aperture is only half the equation.

BradS · Jul 7, 2014

every modern shutter I own is perfectly round when wide open.

Old-N-Feeble · Jul 7, 2014

BradS said:
every modern shutter I own is perfectly round when wide open.

Heh, heh... yeah but I won't be shooting wide open

jp498 · Jul 7, 2014

In my book, there is nothing terribly wrong with the old lenses. Old lens + old shutter/aperture is good for me. Add triplets to your list of good bokeh lenses.

The cheap thing to do would be to insert a handmade (smooth round) disc in front of the aperture, like a waterhouse stop.

ic-racer · Jul 7, 2014

Can you post an example of a LF picture you don't like because of the taking aperture shape. The only time I have seen the aperture blades in the image is when shooting into the sun.

jp498 · Jul 7, 2014

ic-racer said:
Can you post an example of a LF picture you don't like because of the taking aperture shape. The only time I have seen the aperture blades in the image is when shooting into the sun.

Kuhn bugs.

Sun getting a predictable number of star points from the iris shape.

Bokeh, non-wide open.

If you're doing f64 stuff where everything is in focus, it doesn't matter, just like on an enlarger, where every grain is in focus.

Old-N-Feeble · Jul 7, 2014

ic-racer said:
Can you post an example of a LF picture you don't like because of the taking aperture shape. The only time I have seen the aperture blades in the image is when shooting into the sun.

Nothing I've taken recently but it's the jittery/angular OOF areas that bother me. It almost hurts to look at what should be naturally soft and smooth OOF areas.

Old-N-Feeble · Jul 7, 2014

jp498 said:
In my book, there is nothing terribly wrong with the old lenses. Old lens + old shutter/aperture is good for me. Add triplets to your list of good bokeh lenses.

The cheap thing to do would be to insert a handmade (smooth round) disc in front of the aperture, like a waterhouse stop.

I know but I'm afraid of damaging the diaphragm or shutter blades.

Alan Gales · Jul 7, 2014

If you are wanting sharp lenses with old shutters then how about Artars? i own a 19" Red Dot Artar and it's really sharp and in an Ilex shutter.

Dan Fromm · Jul 8, 2014

ic-racer said:
Can you post an example of a LF picture you don't like because of the taking aperture shape. The only time I have seen the aperture blades in the image is when shooting into the sun.

Ic, you just don't get it. Everyone knows that apertures that aren't perfectly round cause horrible hokum. Its all over the Internet so it has to be true.

OP, don't be so vague. Which lenses do you want to remount and which shutters are they in?

Old-N-Feeble · Jul 8, 2014

ALAN: Thank you. I have longer-than-normal FL lenses that are dyalite designs. I thought about selling the 203 Ektar after purchasing a 210 Apo Symmar-L but I think I'll keep them both. The 300 and 450 Fujinon-C are both dyalite derivatives. None of my normal or wider-than-normal FL lenses are dyalites because I want lots of coverage.

DAN: Thank you and no need for sarcasm. I try to keep my questions as generalized as I can for simplicity's sake while providing enough information to others so they can answer wisely. Maybe I failed this time. Following is a list of lenses I may consider moving to older shutters with rounder apertures and all are in modern Copal shutters. And, yes, I do believe very round apertures aid in better bokeh.

38mm SA XL
47mm SA XL
72mm SA XL
110mm SS XL
150mm Apo Symmar-L
210mm Apo Symmar-L
300mm Fujinon-C
450mm Fujinon-C

EDIT: These are all for use with 6x12cm roll film but I want my lenses to cover 5x7 if practicable given their FL.

Dan Fromm · Jul 8, 2014

If all of your lenses are in Copals, look for Compurs or, for ones that fit in #1, Prontor Press. No machining needed, just the money that Compurs will cost. You should be able to recoup some of the outlays by selling y'r Copals.

Asking an overly general question will get an overly general (= generally useless) answer.

Old-N-Feeble · Jul 8, 2014

Dan Fromm said:
Asking an overly general question will get an overly general (= generally useless) answer.

Understood and agreed. Sometimes I just goof.

Dan Fromm said:
If all of your lenses are in Copals, look for Compurs or, for ones that fit in #1, Prontor Press. No machining needed, just the money that Compurs will cost. You should be able to recoup some of the outlays by selling y'r Copals.

So you're implying that all Compur #0 shutters have very round apertures and all Prontor Press #1 shutters do also?

Dan Fromm · Jul 8, 2014

I haven't seen all Compur #0, Compur #1, or Prontor Press #1 shutters. All of mine (n= 5, 2, 3, respectively) have diaphragms with many blades.

Old-N-Feeble · Jul 8, 2014

Okay, thank you. I have a late model Prontor Professional #1 (press type) in my possession and it has only five blades. I need to be looking for older shutters. I'm thinking of adapting all lenses to old Alphax shutters that are roughly #1 size. At least all the outer diameters/threads will be the same and only two inner diameters/threads so maybe the machinist will give me a break. Or maybe Ilex #3?

BTW, I intend to keep the original shutters because most buyers won't appreciate my reasoning for adapting to older shutters. So the cost won't be offset by selling the factory shutters. After all, I won't live forever and the lenses will surely have more value if in their original shutters so my son can sell them for more money.

Old Shutters & Wonderful Round Apertures -- Retrofit Modern Lenses To Old Shutters

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