Old refrigerated film

[StepheKoontz]

I've got a bunch of 120 and 4X5 film dated from around 2000-2005 that's been stored in a fridge. A lot of it was pro film that was bought "in date" from a store that kept their film cold stored. It ranges from APX-25, Delta 100 and Konica IR 720 to Kodak E100s and Fuji Astia 100 E6 films as well as some Kodak 160VC and Fuji 800 print films.

I've been shooting digital for years but have gotten the bug to go shoot with my old Rollei and maybe try 4X5 again. What's the chance this film is worth shooting today? I've read I should probably over expose it, if so any guess as to how much?

 

[mshchem]

I routinely shoot TMY 4x5 sheets stored in a fridge expired in 2001. I would be more hopeful for the black and white. But it really has been stored in a cold shielded place you can probably use it. If it's been in an auto-defrost domestic fridge that's used for food. These see freeze thaw cycles. Best test .

 

[chip j]

I just shot a few rolls of 35mm b&w that was frozen since purchase. EXP 2008-11. The 100 speed was somewhat fogged but still usable, shot @box speed. The 400 @box speed was more fogged and is somewhat questionable, but still made good computer prints.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have even older frozen film and I shoot it at box speed. Just let it come to room temperature before opening the packaging.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I bet it'll all be fine.. I've been shooting 4x5 Kodak HIE that expired in 1967. Kept in a freezer. The base fog is a bit high, but I am still able to use this wonderful stuff.

 

[Pentode]

There may be some fog and the color stuff may have shifted color a bit but overall you should be okay, especially with the B&W stuff.

Also, slower tends to age better than faster so you’re slower emulsions are likely to be in better shape.

I think you’re safe to start your testing at box speed and see where you end up.

 

[aoresteen]

The Konica IR will be very fogged. I bought 40 fresh rolls when it was availble shot about 6 then froze the rest. 5 years later with the film about 3 years past date I shot 2 tolls and the fog was so high nothing ws printable. I tossed the remainder. I would not buy any Konica IR.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

The Konica IR will be very fogged. I bought 40 fresh rolls when it was availble shot about 6 then froze the rest. 5 years later with the film about 3 years past date I shot 2 tolls and the fog was so high nothing ws printable. I tossed the remainder. I would not buy any Konica IR.

Wow that's unfortunate. I used to shoot that stuff when I lived in Japan...120. I shot the last roll just before I came back to Canada. It had been sitting in the back of my desk drawer for 8 years. I discovered it there when I was cleaning out my darkroom... so I shot it and developed it. Came out fine. That's after 8 hot and humid summers.

 

[revdoc]

Six months ago I shot some Konica IR750 that's been in my fridge since the late 90s. It was fine.

 

[aoresteen]

I went back through my negatives and found the120 size Konica IR I first shot. It was May of 1990 and I was living in Illinois. I froze about 34 rolls then and it stayed frozen until 1995 when I tried using it again in Georgia. Except for two weeks in 1993 when I moved to Georgia the film was always frozen. I had ordered the film from Shutan Photo in Chicago and at the time Konica made it only once a year. 40 rolls was the minimum quantity that Shutan had to order so I bit the bullet and ordered the 40 rolls. I *think* that this was the first or second run of the 120 film and I waited six months or so to get it so I would have ordered it around Nov/Dec of 1989.

It's interesting that revdoc & Andrew O'Neill had much better luck with it than I did. I suspect that they had later production stock than I did. IIRC Konica discontinued the 120 IR film around 2004ish so it had about a 14 year run.

I would be wary of any Konica 120 IR film that had an expiration date of May 1992 or earlier.

I have always liked using IR film and this was a huge disappointment for me. I have 5 rolls of of the Rollei I20 IR film to shoot. I also have 18 rolls of Efke 127 (yes 127 for my Baby Rollei 4x4 !) IR820 film that expired in Mar 2008 - I developed a roll last week and it is fine - no fog.

 

[MattKing]

Maybe Georgia has more cosmic rays then where Andrew and revdoc spend their time.

 

[sperera]

I've got a bunch of 120 and 4X5 film dated from around 2000-2005 that's been stored in a fridge. A lot of it was pro film that was bought "in date" from a store that kept their film cold stored. It ranges from APX-25, Delta 100 and Konica IR 720 to Kodak E100s and Fuji Astia 100 E6 films as well as some Kodak 160VC and Fuji 800 print films.

I've been shooting digital for years but have gotten the bug to go shoot with my old Rollei and maybe try 4X5 again. What's the chance this film is worth shooting today? I've read I should probably over expose it, if so any guess as to how much?

the film will be fine no problems....i shoot expired all the time....debatable for me on loss of speed 'myth' or 'fact'

 

[removed account4]

Maybe Georgia has more cosmic rays then where Andrew and revdoc spend their time.

i thought darrell martinie died in 2006 ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darrell_Martinie

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I went back through my negatives and found the120 size Konica IR I first shot. It was May of 1990 and I was living in Illinois. I froze about 34 rolls then and it stayed frozen until 1995 when I tried using it again in Georgia. Except for two weeks in 1993 when I moved to Georgia the film was always frozen. I had ordered the film from Shutan Photo in Chicago and at the time Konica made it only once a year. 40 rolls was the minimum quantity that Shutan had to order so I bit the bullet and ordered the 40 rolls. I *think* that this was the first or second run of the 120 film and I waited six months or so to get it so I would have ordered it around Nov/Dec of 1989.

It's interesting that revdoc & Andrew O'Neill had much better luck with it than I did. I suspect that they had later production stock than I did. IIRC Konica discontinued the 120 IR film around 2004ish so it had about a 14 year run.

I would be wary of any Konica 120 IR film that had an expiration date of May 1992 or earlier.

I have always liked using IR film and this was a huge disappointment for me. I have 5 rolls of of the Rollei I20 IR film to shoot. I also have 18 rolls of Efke 127 (yes 127 for my Baby Rollei 4x4 !) IR820 film that expired in Mar 2008 - I developed a roll last week and it is fine - no fog.

The roll expired in '94.

 

[StepheKoontz]

A follow up: been shooting some of the B&W, with the old film and some fresh film and honestly, I can't see any diff in the fresh film and this 20 year old film. I found some exposed rolls in the fridge, they look fine too. I found a couple of exposed rolls in a drawer that weren't in the fridge for probably 20 years, those has some fog to them. Next is to try some of the color film

 

[KenS]

I bet it'll all be fine.. I've been shooting 4x5 Kodak HIE that expired in 1967. Kept in a freezer. The base fog is a bit high, but I am still able to use this wonderful stuff.

Sir Andrew..
Just invested in a new freezer and, on filling I came across a 'brick' of 35mm HIE that was stored for a number of years at -30°C until put into my 'old freezer' about 3 years ago. Now wondering if it might still be 'OK'

Ken

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Sir Andrew..
Just invested in a new freezer and, on filling I came across a 'brick' of 35mm HIE that was stored for a number of years at -30°C until put into my 'old freezer' about 3 years ago. Now wondering if it might still be 'OK'

Ken

There's only one way to find out... and that is to send them all to me.

 

[Nokton48]

Hey Stephe,

That's a great report. Do you still have that 8x10 Agfa 25 I sold you many years ago? That should be awesome for contact printing if you still have your 8x10. I shoot expired frozen B&W all the time.

-Nokton48 (still HASSYDAN on the now dusty musty Kiev forum)

 

[KenS]

There's only one way to find out... and that is to send them all to me.

I may be somewhat old and 'grey... but I'm not yet as green as I may be 'cabbage looking'....

Unfortunately, I rarely ever 'do' any 35mm now-a-days now that I'm well and truly 'semi-'retired'. Having spent so many years working 'under the dark-cloth' with both my large format 'beasts' that seem to get heavier every time they get out for some 'fresh air'... as a means of having NOT to do any 'housework' for 'She who must be obeyed'

Ken

 

[StepheKoontz]

Hey Stephe,

That's a great report. Do you still have that 8x10 Agfa 25 I sold you many years ago? That should be awesome for contact printing if you still have your 8x10. I shoot expired frozen B&W all the time.

-Nokton48 (still HASSYDAN on the now dusty musty Kiev forum)

OMG! lol How have you been? Yes I actually do still have that film and was dusting off my "real hartblei" K60 in snake skin leather and 60mm Curtagon. I still have a TS 45 and a 180mm sonnar for it. I think I still have a 30mm fisheye too. The 8X10 I have is a rough soviet field camera I converted from glass plate to sheet film 8X10 holder use. Lately I've gotten obsessed with 50's vintage rangefinders, have a Leica IIIc, a canon wind knob leica copy, a Nikon S2 and a Contax IIa. This collecting is starting to get out of hand

 

[Nokton48]

OMG! lol How have you been?

Hey Stephe,

I'm fine, just retired Dec 31st, so lots of time for photography. Renovating my darkroom for B&W and building sink and stuff. In no particular hurry, I'm only 60!

2016-01-01 14.22.12 by Nokton48, on Flickr

You will get a kick out of this. Sold all my Kiev, Hartblei, hot rodded Pentacon, EX66 etc. Still have a small box of stuff left. I hacked this Zebra 180mm to fit my Plaubel Makiflexes. I have three of them, like a European focal plane shutter RB67. I have hacked dozens of lenses to fit the 'flexes. It's a hoot. These are not as heavy as they look. 9x9cm image on 4x5/9x12, or 6.5cmx9, or 6x6, on 120. 9x9cm has amazing fidelity!

Building stuff just like in the old days

Still have my Hasselblads.

 

[StepheKoontz]

That's very cool! I'm probably going to shoot mostly with these old rangefinders and my rolleiflex f2.8D/3.5E. I rarely print past 8X10 so 35mm really is good enough and these old rangefinder lenses give a very cool look to the images.

 

[GRHazelton]

I routinely shoot TMY 4x5 sheets stored in a fridge expired in 2001. I would be more hopeful for the black and white. But it really has been stored in a cold shielded place you can probably use it. If it's been in an auto-defrost domestic fridge that's used for food. These see freeze thaw cycles. Best test .

"...freeze thaw cycles." I don't think so. I think the evaporator plate is separate from the refrigerator and the freezer compartments. Thus the evaporator can be heated a little to melt accumulated frost without warming the cooled compartments to any significant degree. This is generally the method, see also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-defrost
We like to buy tuna steaks frozen in their cryovac wrappers. These are stored without decrease in quality in our 40+ year old Kenmore top freezer frost free machine. Months after purchase the steaks, which we thaw and sear, are fine. At one time the Kenmore somehow got unplugged for a few hours, the tuna steaks, while edible, were damaged from the thaw and subsequent re-freezing. As always, YMMV.

 

[mshchem]

"...freeze thaw cycles." I don't think so. I think the evaporator plate is separate from the refrigerator and the freezer compartments. Thus the evaporator can be heated a little to melt accumulated frost without warming the cooled compartments to any significant degree. This is generally the method, see also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-defrost
We like to buy tuna steaks frozen in their cryovac wrappers. These are stored without decrease in quality in our 40+ year old Kenmore top freezer frost free machine. Months after purchase the steaks, which we thaw and sear, are fine. At one time the Kenmore somehow got unplugged for a few hours, the tuna steaks, while edible, were damaged from the thaw and subsequent re-freezing. As always, YMMV.

Depends on the unit. I worked for Amana Refrigeration for 18 years. We ended up being bought by Maytag which was bought by Whirlpool. There is a cal rod heater in/on the evaporator. There's a thermal cut off switch to keep the heater from getting too hot. Modern refrigerators use adaptive defrost, the number of door openings will help to decide when the heater comes on.
Hang on to that refrigerator, that was made in Evansville IN by Whirlpool (originally Republic Aviation P-47 Thunderbolt plant WWII). It's not as energy efficient, and it's loaded with good old CFC Freon blowing agent and refrigerant. No reason why it won't last another 40 years. Whirlpool closed that plant, highest quality in the entire company, moved production to Mexico. I'm not sure anyone makes a decent top freezer refrigerator any longer. As long as the refrigerator is recycled at end of life, it's hard to imagine a more environmentally friendly product.

 

[GRHazelton]

Depends on the unit. I worked for Amana Refrigeration for 18 years. We ended up being bought by Maytag which was bought by Whirlpool. There is a cal rod heater in/on the evaporator. There's a thermal cut off switch to keep the heater from getting too hot. Modern refrigerators use adaptive defrost, the number of door openings will help to decide when the heater comes on.
Hang on to that refrigerator, that was made in Evansville IN by Whirlpool (originally Republic Aviation P-47 Thunderbolt plant WWII). It's not as energy efficient, and it's loaded with good old CFC Freon blowing agent and refrigerant. No reason why it won't last another 40 years. Whirlpool closed that plant, highest quality in the entire company, moved production to Mexico. I'm not sure anyone makes a decent top freezer refrigerator any longer. As long as the refrigerator is recycled at end of life, it's hard to imagine a more environmentally friendly product.

Thanks for the info! That old Kenmore needed, IRRC, a new coil, whether evaporator or condenser I don't recall, within its warranty period. Some 20 years later I installed a new door gasket. Perhaps 10 years ago I installed a new thermostat. Occasionally a circulating fan makes some noise. Other than those repairs, no problems!
My Parents ordered a Montgomery Ward refrigerator on Monday, December 8, 1941. Since they'd been using an ice box - really - my Father felt that the supply of refrigerators would dry up soon to serve the war effort. That machine lasted well beyond 1967, when my Folks moved. He put a free, surplus timer in the power line to enable auto defrost, of a sort. The freezer compartment was perhaps 1.5 cubic foot capacity, no circulating fan. The timer was a surplus item, probably good for 1 or 2 hp motors! Overkill, maybe? Yes, he was an engineer, of the chemical variety.