Old processes.

Removed Account2 · Jul 3, 2010

I have an old german book, its part of a set, "Wisseschaftliche und Angewandte Photographie"

One of the volumes is about darkroom, another is abour color films and processing.

In there are two different recipes for the Pre-C41 process, apparently one is official Kodak, named C22, the other is german and equivalent to C22.

I was wondering about mixing my own (if I can find the chemicals) and give it a try.

Question is, has anyone info about developing modern day C41 films in the old chemistry?

Will it work at all? I'm not looking for perfect color rendition as I plan to scan the negatives anyway, and photoshop is at hand!

2F/2F · Jul 3, 2010

No. It will not work to achieve perfect color rendition (or maybe not even at all). Why do you want to try it when C-41 chemistry is still made, and still run at labs?

Removed Account2 · Jul 3, 2010

Because I can?

Looking at the chemicals, it seems to me it should be possible to get color, but maybe with a hefty im-balace, which is an EFFECT.....

I can get tetenal chemistry when I want.

Photo Engineer · Jul 3, 2010

The C22 developer is very low in activity compared to the C41 developer. C22 uses CD3 + Benzyl Alcohol, and C41 uses CD4. They give different dyes at different rates and the Benzyl Alcohol tends to smear the image giving less sharpness.

So, give it a try, but be prepared for disappointment.

PE

2F/2F · Jul 3, 2010

Erik Prestmo said:
Because I can?

Looking at the chemicals, it seems to me it should be possible to get color, but maybe with a hefty im-balace, which is an EFFECT.....

I can get tetenal chemistry when I want.

You can also make C-41, and it will work properly.

Removed Account2 · Jul 4, 2010

Thank you for the heads up

Removed Account2 · Jul 4, 2010

You have a link to the published recipe? My book was published WAY before there eer was a C41 process.

ulysses · Jul 4, 2010

Erik Prestmo said:
I have an old german book, its part of a set, "Wisseschaftliche und Angewandte Photographie"

Question is, has anyone info about developing modern day C41 films in the old chemistry?

Will it work at all? I'm not looking for perfect color rendition as I plan to scan the negatives anyway, and photoshop is at hand!

While I'll defer to Photo Engineer on the quality of the results you'll get (and why) I was working in a commercial photo lab shortly after C-41 films were introduced. It was a smallish lab and it took them a while to decide to invest in the new process. They still got enough C-22 film that they had to keep old dip & dunk machine for that. During that period we routinely ran C-41 films through the C-22 process. IIRC, we ran a good bit of Vericolor 120 through it for wedding photographers, so it couldn't have been too bad. I wouldn't do it the other way around, though (C-22 film through C-41 chemistry) because you'd probably melt the emulsion at 100F.

Ulysses

Ian Grant · Jul 4, 2010

Some have done the reverse and put C22 film through C41 chemistry but at room temperature, the resulting prints were passable, no worse than many C22 films in C22 chemistry. I used the Agfa negative films (their own process) when I first shot colour finding the colour quality much higher.

The difference when C41 was released was a big step forward, as was E6.

Ian

Removed Account2 · Jul 4, 2010

Keep in mind I'm NOT asking about color quality in PRINTS, I develop filmns but svan negatives. Any decent software can probaly be set ut to handle pretty hefty color balances and im-balances IMHO.

Again where can I find the recipes for the C41 process?

ulysses · Jul 4, 2010

Erik Prestmo said:
Again where can I find the recipes for the C41 process?

Here are the ones that I use:

http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/photo/c41_ra4_chemicals.htm

Ulysses

Photo Engineer · Jul 5, 2010

The RA4 chemistry at that site does not include Diethyl Hydroxyl Amine Oxalate. You can substittute Hydroxyl Amine Sulfate with some experimentation. The pH is not given and is critical.

The C41 chemistry omits the Potassium Iodide which is used for controlling sharpness and color balance. The pH is critical as well.

Good luck.

Anon Ymous · Jul 5, 2010

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be hard to make a good and cheap C41 bleach? How about sourcing Ferric Ammonium EDTA at a nice price, for such small quantities that a hobbyist will use? In any case, using any off the shelf C41 kit in a way that it wasn't supposed to be used will give "effects". Have a look here (page 29 of 54, onwards) to see how things can go wrong.

RPC · Jul 5, 2010

Photo Engineer said:
The RA4 chemistry at that site does not include Diethyl Hydroxyl Amine Oxalate. You can substittute Hydroxyl Amine Sulfate with some experimentation.

How will the lack of these affect the results?

Old processes.

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