Old (OLD) Kodachrome

Toffle · May 18, 2007

Hi folks;
My only real experience is with B&W, but I have just been given 16 rolls of Kodachrome 25. (and four rolls if Kodak Elite II 200) ...Expiry date 08/1998. I've been told that it has been refrigerator stored (in the back of an office for the last decade) Is there any hope for this film? (and what can I do with it?) I know I'll have to send it out for processing, which is getting harder and harder to get around here. (or... what modifications do I have to make to my B&W outfit to work with these)

Cheers,

CRhymer · May 18, 2007

Hello Tom,
If your Kodachrome 25 expired in 1998 I am fairly confident it will work fine. Because it is a bit costly to process, why not try a roll or two first. Shoppers Drug Mart used to accept Kodachrome for shipping out. A couple of years ago I had them send out some Super 8 (before the Swiss lab shut down). I forget what it cost, but it was quite reasonable. They also handled the prepaid stuff for free. If your 25 came from Canada, it probably had a prepaid mailer. I don't know if Kodak will still honour it. You may have to press them (Shoppers) to look it up in their price list, since they probably don't handle much. I don't know if you are near a Shoppers in Point Pelee. I shot a roll of 25 last June 21 and it expired in 1997- turned out very well. You can of course process it by B&W reversal (works very well), but why waste the 25 (no longer made and a great film).

Or maybe you would like to sell it?

I don't know anything about the Elite II 200.

Cheers,
Clarence

copake_ham · May 18, 2007

Hi Tom,

Everything I ever learned from my own experience or heard from others about Kodachrome would lead me to believe that your 1998 vintage rolls should be in good shape (espescially if they really were stored as you have been told).

Nowadays, just about all Kodachrome worldwide is processed by Dwayne's in Kansas City (in fact, I don't know who else does process it). You might want to check their website to confirm they process K-25 - though I'm fairly certain they do.

Sending to them directly may save a few $ - it will definitely save some time.

Enjoy, with the high Summer days upon us you should have some nice bright skies for shooting ISO 25!

Alex Bishop-Thorpe · May 18, 2007

Kodachrome 25 is rather sought after from what I've seen (like any unique film that go out of production), so enjoy it and I'm confident it'd still be in great shape. Kodachrome has a reputation for keeping well. Dwaynes does the processing for pretty much all kodachrome these days, pretty reasonable prices - The order forms are on the site. I've used Kodachrome 64 for a lot of different things, I like it for candid people photos, but nature is always great in colour.
As for the Elite II 200, I wouldn't be too confident in it's keeping properties, but shoot a few rolls and see what happens. Worst case, the colours will be interesting.

Richard Mendales · May 18, 2007

Dwayne's in Kansas City is authorized by Kodak to process Kodachrome, and does a pretty good job of it. My experience with Kodachrome indicates that if your film has been carefully stored (especially kept away from moisture), it should give you fine results.

Toffle · May 18, 2007

Thanks so much. The more I see from members of the APUG forums, the more I come to respect and appreciate you all. I will definitely check out Dwayne's; their service seems very professional. Of course, I'll have to start thinking in colour again. (and at ISO 25!) Oh, well, I have quite a few rolls to practice to try and get it right.

Thanks again.

CRhymer · May 18, 2007

Hello Tom.

As others have said, Dwayne's is the only place left. However, if you have prepaid processing - this was the norm in Canada until a few years ago - the Kodachrome sold in Canada no longer has it included - you should see if it is still valid, after all Kodak got paid for it when the film was bought. Prepaid processing was discontinued in the US many years ago due to an "anti-trust" type suit. Carousel in Edmonton quoted me a price of $13.00CDN for processing (sending out) a roll of the non prepaid recent Kodachrome that I bought from Don's for $9.00CD - if dropped off. While it may be faster to ship directly to Dwayne's, mail service to the US and back is not exactly fast, and the USPS changed their rates on May 15th. I don't know if that will make a difference for the size of package you are going to send. By the way, the last Super 8 Kodachrome that I sent (last summer) in it's prepaid processing mailer cost $1.85CDN + 6%GST postage, went to Switzerland via Toronto and the processed film was mailed back for free. The two 35mm films I sent (one old 25 and one old 64) - also $1.85 for the pair - went to Dwayne's via Kodak Canada with free return shipping. Those days are over - sigh. One can understand why they couldn't maintain that deal.

In short, make sure you can't get it sent and processed for free before you spend a lot on shipping etc. There should be a mailer in the box, or address in Toronto. The prepaid canisters are a different colour as I recall.

Cheers,
Clarence

copake_ham · May 18, 2007

CRhymer said:
Hello Tom.

As others have said, Dwayne's is the only place left. However, if you have prepaid processing - this was the norm in Canada until a few years ago - the Kodachrome sold in Canada no longer has it included - you should see if it is still valid, after all Kodak got paid for it when the film was bought. Prepaid processing was discontinued in the US many years ago due to an "anti-trust" type suit. Carousel in Edmonton quoted me a price of $13.00CDN for processing (sending out) a roll of the non prepaid recent Kodachrome that I bought from Don's for $9.00CD - if dropped off. While it may be faster to ship directly to Dwayne's, mail service to the US and back is not exactly fast, and the USPS changed their rates on May 15th. I don't know if that will make a difference for the size of package you are going to send. By the way, the last Super 8 Kodachrome that I sent (last summer) in it's prepaid processing mailer cost $1.85CDN + 6%GST postage, went to Switzerland via Toronto and the processed film was mailed back for free. The two 35mm films I sent (one old 25 and one old 64) - also $1.85 for the pair - went to Dwayne's via Kodak Canada with free return shipping. Those days are over - sigh. One can understand why they couldn't maintain that deal.

In short, make sure you can't get it sent and processed for free before you spend a lot on shipping etc. There should be a mailer in the box, or address in Toronto. The prepaid canisters are a different colour as I recall.

Cheers,
Clarence

Huh?

Prepaid mailers are regularly sold in the U.S. I know - I just bought a batch for Fujichrome from Hunt's Photo in MA. BTW: Fujichrome now goes to Dwayne's also.

If you have a prepaid Kodak "chrome" mailer (I have several left, BTW) you can send it to the address on it - or you can send it to Dwayne's for the credit with your film. Either way, the film is going to Dwayne's* so why in the world would you send it Lausanne, SW to have them ship it to the USA to have it go back to CDN!

*In case anyone is unaware - the Lausanne facility was closed about six months ago and ALL Kodachrome now goes to Dwayne's. You might want to do a search under Kodachrome here for additional confirmation!

CRhymer · May 19, 2007

copake_ham said:
Huh?

Prepaid mailers are regularly sold in the U.S. I know - I just bought a batch for Fujichrome from Hunt's Photo in MA. BTW: Fujichrome now goes to Dwayne's also.

If you have a prepaid Kodak "chrome" mailer (I have several left, BTW) you can send it to the address on it - or you can send it to Dwayne's for the credit with your film. Either way, the film is going to Dwayne's* so why in the world would you send it Lausanne, SW to have them ship it to the USA to have it go back to CDN!

*In case anyone is unaware - the Lausanne facility was closed about six months ago and ALL Kodachrome now goes to Dwayne's. You might want to do a search under Kodachrome here for additional confirmation!

Hello George,

I am not talking about prepaid mailers you buy separately. In Canada for many years the film was sold with the processing included - not the case recently. What I am saying, is that the 1998 ASA 25 in question probably had processing included in the sale price if it was sold in Canada - so why pay twice - or pay for shipping to the US when someone else will do it for free - it is worth a try, since it worked as recently as a year ago. Good news for Tom that Dwayne's will honour the prepaid status of the film. As I recall the 35mm didn't actually have a mailer included, you just mailed the rolls to a PO Box number at Kodak, Toronto and Qualex Canada handled the bulk cross border shipping etc. The canisters were, as I recall, red to indicate that processing was included. I think Qualex (owned, at least then, by Kodak) is whom Shoppers (and many small drug stores that don't have 1hour labs) use. Many Shoppers locations of course do 1hour C-41 35mm, but send out other work.

I am not suggesting that it be sent to Switzerland, that was Kodak's choice for Canadian Super8 prepaid film which we Canadians could send to Toronto for $1.85 or drop off at Shoppers Drug Mart for free. Kodak decided how and where it would be shipped. In fact, a few years ago my Super8 would come back from the US (not Dwayne's - I forget what the address was). It was only the last year or so of operations at Lausanne that Kodak would send the movie film to Switzerland. For a while it would be sent back to the US and then Canada, and at the end directly to Canada. It always took about the same length of time - 3 weeks. The last prepaid 35mm I sent to Kodak in Toronto (last July) was in fact done at Dwayne's and the turn around time was about 2 weeks, which is not too bad for cross border mail. I got the last Super8 from Lausanne in three weeks (mailed from Yellowknife, NT and returned to Fort Smith, NT). I think it was one of the last runs they did.

Ironically, I will probably now be sending my Kodachrome (all fresh and non prepaid ) directly to Dwayne's, because in my remote location the cost of shipping to Edmonton and back to take advantage of "drop off" service is a fair portion of the shipping costs to Dwayne's.

However, for Tom in Point Pelee, he may save by mailing to Kodak in Toronto - they have a toll free number.

Cheers,
Clarence

CRhymer · May 19, 2007

A few errata and addenda.

The 35mm prepaid Kodachrome may have had a mailer in the carton, but one had to put postage on it, and it wasn't necessary to use Kodak's mailer. They could tell by the canister (I believe it was the colour) if processing was included in the original sale price. There was a tab to snip to indicate if you wanted the slides mounted or not. Apparently the movie film had some indicator (which I can't recall) that told the lab if it was prepaid.

This is all sort of academic, but perhaps someone knows how Tom can tell if his film has processing included, in case the original mailers are not present.

At any rate, I would use that 25 even if I had to pay double - it is that good (if you like Kodachrome that is).

Are you sure you don't want to sell some Tom?

Cheers,
Clarence

MattKing · May 19, 2007

The Canadian Kodachrome was always sold with processing included (until Kodak stopped processing it here) because there were no non-Kodak labs processing it in Canada, and because Kodak Canada wasn't subject to the US anti-trust legislation/decision (in the US, there were at one time non-Kodak labs who could process the film).

The Canadian Kodachrome that included processing has printed right on the film cannister (in a red area, IIRC) the fact that it was processing included.

The mailing envelope that used to be included with the film, was a convenience mailer only - it was the printing on the canister itself that confirmed the film was sold with processing included.

I expect a phone call to Kodak Canada would reveal whether or not the old "processing included" status would still be honoured, and how it might be "invoked".

Dwaynes may also be able to answer the question.

Matt

I am sure that Kodak Canada

Toffle · May 19, 2007

Thanks (again) everyone. The canister does indeed bear the label "FILM PRICE INCLUDES PROCESSING BY KODAK" This is very good news. I'll just have to make sure the mailing address hasn't changed in the last decade. I'm going to thaw out a roll today.

Cheers,

Toffle · May 19, 2007

CRhymer said:
A few errata and addenda.

At any rate, I would use that 25 even if I had to pay double - it is that good (if you like Kodachrome that is).

Are you sure you don't want to sell some Tom?

Cheers,
Clarence

Clarence, I would almost consider selling some, except for the fact that it is getting harder and harder to find any good films these days. I've had some HIE on order for over a month. The Kodachrome 25 was a gift from my sister in Quebec City who was looking for HIE there for me. (No luck there either - or from my brother in Ottawa.) By the time I use all of this Kodachrome, it should have a pretty high street value.

Cheers,

CRhymer · May 19, 2007

Hi Tom,

Yes, you would regret letting any of it go. Good luck and keep us informed.

Cheers,
Clarence

Bill Mitchell · May 20, 2007

Unlike other color films, KODACHROME is really a B&W film with the colors added during processing, so there is considerably less likelihood that there will be a problem with out-of-date film. Good luck.

MattKing · May 20, 2007

Does any one else here react with chagrin at hearing Kodachrome with a process before date of 1998 described as "Old (OLD)"

By the way, in response to Bill's post above, IIRC while it is true that Kodachrome does not have the dyes incorporated in it until it is processed, the sensitized layers are not immune from change due to age. Accordingly, Kodachrome keeps well, but not perfectly over long periods of time.

Have fun with that film, it is probably highly usable.

Matt

Earl Dunbar · May 20, 2007

Tom: If you get into London, Stan C. Reade can send it out for you. I think Barry (assuming he's still working there) and the gang would enjoy seeing a K25 processing order.

Craig · May 21, 2007

Kodachrome used to come with an envelope that you could use to mail the roll back to Kodak for processing, but it was simply for your convenience. The indicator of processing included was the red ends on the cannister, and it said processing was included.

Since this is Canadian K25, it will be processing included. It's only been in the last two years or so that you could buy Kodachrome that wasn't processing included in Canada.

Hopefully this film will be ok, but I have my doubts. I had some old film that I was given, and supposedly stored cold, but it went magenta and had a significant loss of D Max. Some rolls were ok, others were very bad. Do a test roll, but don't use it on anything critical until you get the first roll processed. Attached is an example of the color shift.

Toffle · May 21, 2007

Craig said:
Hopefully this film will be ok, but I have my doubts. I had some old film that I was given, and supposedly stored cold, but it went magenta and had a significant loss of D Max. Some rolls were ok, others were very bad. Do a test roll, but don't use it on anything critical until you get the first roll processed. Attached is an example of the color shift.

I've pretty much finished my test roll. Nothing too critical... just my 25th wedding anniversary. ... which I've also covered with a roll of Rollei Retro (which I process myself) and Fuji Superia, which I trust to Shopper's Drug Mart. I just don't know whether to ship to the Kodak address as indicated on the box, or to send it directly to Dwayne's. I'll put a call through to Dwayne's after our (Canadian) long weekend.

Thanks again to all.

Craig · May 21, 2007

Toffle said:
I just don't know whether to ship to the Kodak address as indicated on the box, or to send it directly to Dwayne's. I'll put a call through to Dwayne's after our (Canadian) long weekend.

I've always dropped off my Kodachrome at London Drugs (alas only in Western Canada, excellent E6 and dirt cheap) and they ship it off to Dwaynes and LD charges me $1.25 (inc tax) handling fee. I think that's probably cheaper than postage to mail it to Kodak. Comes back in about 3 weeks, and I've never had a problem with them honouring the pre paid processing.

kraker · May 21, 2007

Craig said:
Kodachrome used to come with an envelope that you could use to mail the roll back to Kodak for processing, but it was simply for your convenience.

As a side note, Re "Used to": In selected markets it still comes with such an envelope. Europe, just to mention one. "Price includes processing; not in U.S.", it says on the film roll. Most of Europe sends it to Kodak Switzerland; Germany -for some reason- has another address to send it to. Then Kodak Switzerlands sends them to Dwayne's. (no, really!)

CRhymer · May 21, 2007

Craig said:
I've always dropped off my Kodachrome at London Drugs (alas only in Western Canada, excellent E6 and dirt cheap) and they ship it off to Dwaynes and LD charges me $1.25 (inc tax) handling fee. I think that's probably cheaper than postage to mail it to Kodak. Comes back in about 3 weeks, and I've never had a problem with them honouring the pre paid processing.

Hi Craig,

Your earlier post and pic says it all - red/orange end caps and "processing included" on the canister. Does anyone remember if the processing included super 8 had any markings or label saying that? As I recall it didn't, but the lab could tell by the film or cartridge. Of course the box said so, and the mailing envelope required one to put the proper address (selected from a list) of the receiving point for the country from which it was mailed. It is only of academic interest for me now.

Also, do you know if LD still handles Kodacrhome? Since I live in the NWT, I either used the mailers, for $1.85, or dropped (for free) at Shoppers in Wpg. where I have family. I now have fresh (non processing included) KR64 and PKR64, and am comparing the costs of shipping directly to Dwayne's vs drop off when I am in Edmonton, Calgary or Wpg. For 5-10 rolls direct shipping seems like the best deal, but for a single roll, shipping to the US and back becomes very dear.

Further to "old, old film", I don't consider 1998 Kodachrome 25 to be that old, but it also seems to be the case that most sellers of past date film claim that it has been stored in liquid nitrogen since purchased. A test roll or two is always a good idea. Now, if I only had some - sigh.

Cheers,
Clarence

Craig · May 21, 2007

CRhymer said:
Also, do you know if LD still handles Kodacrhome?

They did as of last week when I dropped off 3 rolls. That was at the Brentwood location in Calgary. The fee is per roll, its $1.18 plus GST.

CRhymer · May 21, 2007

Craig said:
They did as of last week when I dropped off 3 rolls. That was at the Brentwood location in Calgary. The fee is per roll, its $1.18 plus GST.

Thanks.

Cheers,
Clarence

Toffle · May 22, 2007

CRhymer said:
Further to "old, old film", I don't consider 1998 Kodachrome 25 to be that old,

Cheers,
Clarence

Does any one else here react with chagrin at hearing Kodachrome with a process before date of 1998 described as "Old (OLD)"

Seeing as I have cheese in my fridge with the same expiration date, I shouldn't be too quick to judge.

I just dropped my first roll off at Shoppers' Drug Mart. They use a Fuji lab, so I called ahead. They ship to Fuji, Fuji ships to Kodak, Kodak ships to Dwayne's. They optimistically promised an 8-10 day return.

I also called Dwayne's today. The rep I spoke to didn't know anything about pre-paid processing and quoted me $8.50 for processing + $11 shipping. (I'm really hoping the Shoppers' deal works out.)

I'll keep you posted... in 8-10 days. (I'm an optimist too )

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