Old KRST - is it safe to decant into another container?

I bought a darkroom, which came with 7 1 liter bottles of KRST concentrate. As far as I know they are unopened. My understanding is that this stuff lasts forever, right?

All of the bottles are old plastic, and I don't think I trust them. When bending, they squeak a lot and I'm afraid one might fail at some point. Is it safe to open them all and pour them into 1 gallon jugs? Or, is this a horrible idea?

I have some quite old KRST bottles and they shouldn't degenrate. but there's no reason at all why you shouldn't store in newer containers as long as you label them well.

Ian

Your driving concern at this point is the failure of one or more of your existing containers, which would be bad from a health and environmental point of view, beyond the mess and damage it would do in your darkroom. Clean-up and disposal would be a real headache.

What do you risk in transferring/combining your supply? There is some chance of cross-contamination, but if they are unopened I don't see much of a problem there.

Is there sediment/precipitate in any of the bottles? You might want to screen that out. Otherwise, have at 'er... and use the stuff.

Yeah, my main concern is to come into the darkroom to find a giant puddle on the floor. I assume that KRST doesn't oxidize at all?

Any suggestions on bottles for it? Would used plastic vinegar bottles be OK?

This must be a lifetime supply - I guess I can selenium tone everything now.

Michael R 1974 said:

Ian, I never got a straight answer from anyone on this, but why would KRST last so long? It has ammonium thiosulfate (ie rapid fixer) in it, and sodium sulfite (presumably as a presevative). Why would it last forever if fixer doesn't?

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It's mainly the percentages. A Rapid fixer concentrate has a very high concentration of Ammonium Thiosphate and this is prone to breaking down and precipitating sulphur.

KRST has a lower level of thiosulphate and a different pH which helps as well. That combined with the Sulphite helps prevent or slow down considerably the break down.

Ian

Let me put my 2¢ in here.

I have been told all sorts of stories about selenium toner and, to hear some people tell it, the stuff is like weapons grade plutonium.

Yes, I agree! Selenium is toxic but it is not nuclear waste! If you handle it carefully as you would any other chemical, you will be just fine.
Wear gloves. Wear goggles. Wear an apron. Make sure you have adequate ventilation. Use all the safe practices that, if you are good photographer, you SHOULD already be using.

People use paint thinners and chemicals in their houses every day without a second thought. You sit in your car, sometimes, just two feet away from a tank full of flammable gasoline. Nobody worries about stuff like this in the least but I actually had one guy tell me that a "friend of a friend" got cancer from selenium toner because a few drops of it spilled on the floor. This guy truly believed that!

If you spill some toner, mop it up with plenty of detergent and water then put the dirty mops and utensils in a plastic bag, tie it up well and put it in the trash. If you spill more than a little bit of it, you would be wise to take the soiled materials to your local Haz-Mat Amnesty site.

For cryin' out loud! People shouldn't make this a huge issue.

*** Now, back to Planet Earth! ***

Jeff, I think you are right. You would be wise to put your toner into newer, more reliable containers. As long as they are full, unused and/or have not been opened they should not go bad for the foreseeable future. If stored in a cool place, in a good container there should be no problems as long as you want to keep the stuff.

You probably do have a lifetime supply!

It is my practice to keep my eggs in more than one basket. I would not combine smaller bottles into one large one. If one container spills or breaks you have less problems to worry about. If you use with smaller amounts of solution at one time, there is less chance of contamination or other screw-ups spoiling all of your stock. Should there be an accident, smaller amounts of chemicals are easier to segregate than large ones. (Assuming we're not talking about "industrial quantities.") If stored in smaller, airtight bottles, you will have fewer concerns about your stocks going bad due to oxidization and spoilage.

I think you are on the right track. Your common sense seems to be serving you well.

Thanks all for the input! APUG rocks.

On a side note - anyone know the shelf life on partially used film cleaner? I got some Edwal Film Cleaner and also some Kodak Movie Film Cleaner in the same lot, both small half empty bottles.

Worker 11811 said:

Let me put my 2¢ in here.

I have been told all sorts of stories about selenium toner and, to hear some people tell it, the stuff is like weapons grade plutonium.

Yes, I agree! Selenium is toxic but it is not nuclear waste! If you handle it carefully as you would any other chemical, you will be just fine.
Wear gloves. Wear goggles. Wear an apron. Make sure you have adequate ventilation. Use all the safe practices that, if you are good photographer, you SHOULD already be using.

People use paint thinners and chemicals in their houses every day without a second thought. You sit in your car, sometimes, just two feet away from a tank full of flammable gasoline. Nobody worries about stuff like this in the least but I actually had one guy tell me that a "friend of a friend" got cancer from selenium toner because a few drops of it spilled on the floor. This guy truly believed that!

If you spill some toner, mop it up with plenty of detergent and water then put the dirty mops and utensils in a plastic bag, tie it up well and put it in the trash. If you spill more than a little bit of it, you would be wise to take the soiled materials to your local Haz-Mat Amnesty site.

For cryin' out loud! People shouldn't make this a huge issue.

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You just have, there's plenty of equally toxic chemistry used in the dark room.

Ian

Ian Grant said:

You just have, there's plenty of equally toxic chemistry used in the dark room.

Ian

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At the public darkroom I use sometimes, I saw someone pour out his measured graduates for d-76, stop bath, fixer, hypo clear. He got them mixed up, and proceeded to taste them to determine what was what!

The scary part is, how did he already know what they taste like?

Ian Grant said:

You just have, there's plenty of equally toxic chemistry used in the dark room.

Ian

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Maybe I've been traumatized by people like the "cancer guy."
Thanks for helping to keep my feet on the ground.

Jeff Bannow said:

At the public darkroom I use sometimes, I saw someone pour out his measured graduates for d-76, stop bath, fixer, hypo clear. He got them mixed up, and proceeded to taste them to determine what was what!

The scary part is, how did he already know what they taste like?

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You can usually tell by the smell. Just waft your hand over the container and carefully sniff.

If you are worried about selenium don't use extra strength Head and shoulders shampoo and if you do you had better bottle your bath water and take it to the Hazmat station

Jeff Bannow said:

At the public darkroom I use sometimes, I saw someone pour out his measured graduates for d-76, stop bath, fixer, hypo clear. He got them mixed up, and proceeded to taste them to determine what was what!

The scary part is, how did he already know what they taste like?

Click to expand...

Fixer might taste like Vinigar?

Jeff Bannow said:

On a side note - anyone know the shelf life on partially used film cleaner? I got some Edwal Film Cleaner and also some Kodak Movie Film Cleaner in the same lot, both small half empty bottles.

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Movie film cleaner used to be Triclorothane with a bit of wax to lubricate the film. Should last forever, but has been banned for years. Don't know about the edwal stuff but probaly in the same family. Just hope it is not Carbon Tet.

Fixer tastes like ... ? Who the heck would know? No, stop bath probably would taste like vinegar, but please don't taste the chems. I'm one of the people who is constantly urging folks not to pay too much attention to alarmist exaggerations of the "horrors" of photochemistry, but I would say it's an incredibly bad idea to ingest any photo solution.

If you're going to transfer KRST into a new container, why not do it right and use a proper brown glass bottle? Used well, KRST can have a very long life, so perhaps this is not the best place to economize.