old ilford paper

pmu · Dec 20, 2005

Hi,

I have a change to buy a lot of older Ilford multigrade 3 paper, but I should ask this; the paper is about 10-15 years old, but it has been stored in unopened boxes all the time in the refridgerator. The seller says that the paper is 100% "as new" - you can´t see any difference compared to a new paper. I don't have the opportunity to test the paper before buying. I would buy 20x30cm paper / 900 papers total, 180 eur.

What do you think about this? Could there be some defects in the paper? If yes, what would it be?

avandesande · Dec 20, 2005

very likely is fogged

Les McLean · Dec 20, 2005

Don't waste your money

pmu · Dec 20, 2005

Oh, just to correct: the seller is honest - I am sure about that (I have done business with him before...I bought out-of-date films which also worked "like new").

So please focus on this; Stored correctly in unopened 50 sheet boxes (those boxes in different boxes - as they came from the store when they bought them - so totally unopened). The papers (and films that I earlier bought) have been used in professional/company work but they couple of years ago moved to digital.

Likely fogged or could they be flawless?

Jim Noel · Dec 20, 2005

If this paper has been stored as adertised, it should be fine.
If there is a very slight overall fog it may help you save some of those negs with burnt out highlights as it will act as pre-exposure of the paper.

I use a lot of very old paper which is always stored in my refrigerator or freezer. It is rare that I have a problem.

To give you an idea. Not long ago I opened and printed on a box of DuPont Varigam, single weightpaper, Use by date 1956 - NO FOG!
Jim

honerich · Dec 20, 2005

pmu said:
Hi,

I have a change to buy a lot of older Ilford multigrade 3 paper, but I should ask this; the paper is about 10-15 years old, ...
What do you think about this? Could there be some defects in the paper? If yes, what would it be?

I had Ilford MG3 paper in the attic for about 8 years, with up to 40°C during summer. I was astonished that it still was okay!

But 900 sheets are pretty much and will last for years in an amateur's darkroom. To be sure I would take 1 box for testing.

john_s · Dec 20, 2005

Jim Noel said:
.........
To give you an idea. Not long ago I opened and printed on a box of DuPont Varigam, single weightpaper, Use by date 1956 - NO FOG!
Jim

And Brovira from 1971 is still ok, having been stored at temperate room temperature. Newer papers don't store so well.

Brac · Dec 20, 2005

Old films seem to last better than paper which tends to lose contrast. Personally I wouldn't bother with it as there is a considerable risk element.

pmu · Dec 21, 2005

Thanks for your advices. I will buy one box and do some testing before buying more...

pmu · Dec 21, 2005

OK, can you help me - how do I test that paper?

-Fogging; taking a small slice of paper in total darkness and developed it straight away and then compare the result for undeveloped slice? If no difference = the paper is not fogged?

-Contrast; just checking if I get real blacks and whites to the same paper?

-Anything else?

Ole · Dec 21, 2005

Make a print from a "known negative" with filtration that should give the same contrast as you've used before. Do a step wedge, for that matter...

I have some Ilfospeed III that's even older, which has lost contrast in the highlights only. It now has "normal" G3 shadows and midtones, and an extremely long midtone to highlight scale. But there's no sign of fogging.

fschifano · Dec 21, 2005

pmu said:
OK, can you help me - how do I test that paper?

-Fogging; taking a small slice of paper in total darkness and developed it straight away and then compare the result for undeveloped slice? If no difference = the paper is not fogged?

-Contrast; just checking if I get real blacks and whites to the same paper?

-Anything else?

Run a piece through develop, stop, and fix. Run the other piece only through the fixer. Some papers, and most that I've worked with, will darken upon exposure to light without development so you can't make that comparison without a fixed out piece of paper.

pmu · Dec 24, 2005

Well, I tested that paper and the results were just super. I am not an expert, but when I compared the results to new agfa and adox papers I used for those same frames the results were just as good. Absolutely no signs of fogging and I got tones ranging from deep space black to brilliantly white...

Dead Link Removed

Do you know when they stopped manufacturing ilford multigrade 3 papers? The seller said that he is really not so sure how old those papers really are - could be around 5-15 years old.

Is it possible to freeze papers? (RC paper tht is.)My fridge is literally now full of papers and films There's no room for food...

Paul Sorensen · Dec 24, 2005

pmu said:
-Fogging; taking a small slice of paper in total darkness and developed it straight away and then compare the result for undeveloped slice? If no difference = the paper is not fogged?

Make sure you fix the undeveloped slice, but yes, this would give you a good idea on the fogging. As for contrast, I don't know how you can compare it to the paper's original characteristics, but you can easily compare it to fresh paper to see how it holds up.

Ian Grant · Dec 25, 2005

Afew comments about old papers:

Not all manufacrurers papers age well, however Ilford and Kodak papers do, and Agfa aren't far behind.

Sterling and Oriental papers don't last from my personal experiences, Kentmere well that has to be seen as I have a whole load of 60's/70's B&W paper which came in a job lot with a load of equipment via the internet 5 yrs ago.

I have very useable Ilford papers manufactured in the 70's, I'll be honest and say the emulsion speed has probaly dropped with time and also the contrast - however the papers fine no fogging and capable of producing exhibition prints. The only problem is the papers is all RC which I rarely use.

Have loads of Kodak Fibre based papers which dat back to the early 60's and all still print as expected.

I had amassive clearout a few months ago and tested all the boxes of old paper and was amazed at the results.

Ian

pmu · Dec 27, 2005

Do you have any idea when Ilford stopped manufacturing/dealing this multigrade III paper? I read many threads here (and photo.net) and the conclusion; ilford multigrade papers don't store well (even if stored in the freezer). At least multigrade IV...not sure about this III. MG IV was introduced ´95 so these papers could be around 8-12 years old and no sign of fogging or loss in contrast. So is there some kind of tactical difference in quality in III and IV papers...(when dealing with older paper that is)?

old ilford paper

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