Old HC-110 vs new HC-110

[campy51]

Is there much of a difference between these two formula? I wanted to try it since I read it has a long shelf life and I don't do a lot of film. I will be using HP-5 120 film most likely at box speed.

 

[koraks]

How many HC110 variants have there been over the past few years? Four or so? Which ones do you intend to compare?

 

[Vovanuhc]

and someone has a recipe for HC110, preferably the last one.

 

[koraks]

and someone has a recipe for HC110, preferably the last one.

The original (the syrupy stuff) isn't easily made. It takes a reasonably well-equipped lab; not something found in typical home darkrooms. Maybe the modern, water-based versions can be replicated with more modest means. They likely won't have the same longevity as the original syrup.
For those interested, here's some stuff to read: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/new-hc-110-formula.169322
Things get pretty interesting especially around page 14.

 

[Vovanuhc]

Interesting turn of events, must read

 

[Steven Lee]

Is there much of a difference between these two formula? I wanted to try it since I read it has a long shelf life and I don't do a lot of film. I will be using HP-5 120 film most likely at box speed.

Why not consider Ilfotec HC then? Its formulation and availability have been stable over the years, and it's intended to be a direct competitor/replacement for HC-110. I have never tried the Kodak developer, but those who did reported identical results, and it also lasts seemingly forever. Mine is pushing 2 years in the original bottle.

 

[Paul Howell]

Seems to be a couple of versions, the newest under the Kodak brand, some concern that Sino Promise might not be making any Kodak branded products. The ILford version, and Freestyle offers a version under the Legacy label. I was going to buy the ILford version, that was during the worst of the Pandemic and could not find any, I bought the newish Kodak branded version, same development times as the old syrup HC110, good balance of grain, film speed, and contrast. I use Foma 400, Tmax 400, and a few rolls of TriX, all seem to do as well as D76, Clayton F76+ and Photographers Formulary version of D76. I have dumped all of the other developers I had on had, DK 50, MCM 100, and D76, HC110 and Rodinal are the 2 that I keep on hand. I use Rodinal for Foma 100 and Tmax 100.

Legacy Pro L110 is around $17.00 compared to $90 for the Ilford version.

LegacyPro L110 Liquid Film Developer - 1 Pint (Makes 2 Gallo

LegacyPro L110 Film Developer is a highly concentrated liquid developer. It is intended for use with a variety of black and white film. It can be used for replenished and non-replenished systems. Use LegacyPro L110R Developer Replenisher (#10191) to replenish.…

www.freestylephoto.com

 

[campy51]

The Ilfotec is $92 at B&H. I found a place that has the old 1 ltr bottle HC-110 for $40

 

[DREW WILEY]

Note that the Legacy Pro version is in a pint or perhaps 500 ml container, so double the price for sake of fair comparison to products coming in quart or liter bottles instead.

B&H sometimes dramatically raises prices on a temporary basis when a product is scarce, then lowers the price back down when its relatively common once again. So keep that in mind too.

 

[logan2z]

FWIW, I spoke to someone at Freestyle recently about Old Kodak HC-110 vs. New Kodak HC-110 vs. Legacy Pro L110 in terms of shelf life and dilutions/development times and here's what I was told:

it is the same dilutions, same results for both HC-110 and L-110. The current versions of both are virtually the same.

The old syrupy version's main difference was the shelf life was much longer.

BH shows HC-110 as 'No longer available'. I wasn't sure if that meant a particular formula was no longer available but a new version would be released soon or whether it was gone for good. I checked with them and they confirmed that "yes, the Kodak developer is no longer made."

 

[logan2z]

Note that the Legacy Pro version is in a pint or perhaps 500 ml container, so double the price for sake of fair comparison to products coming in quart or liter bottles instead.

B&H sometimes dramatically raises prices on a temporary basis when a product is scarce, then lowers the price back down when its relatively common once again. So keep that in mind too.

Ilfotec-HC is listed at $92.95 at both B&H and Adorama, and $89.99 at Freestyle (which shows it as out of stock). Is that dramatically more than it was before? The equivalent amount of L-110 is about $32 for 1 liter and HC-110 is (was?) $43.99 for 1L (at Freestyle). When my supply of HC-110 runs out I think I'm going to give L-110 a try.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Mostly around $45 per qt earlier. Of course, cost and overhead of mfg might have subsequently gone up. Ilford is dramatically raising prices overall, whether permanently, I cannot say. All kinds of inflationary issues - hangover from pandemic distribution crunch, energy costs going up, scarcity of supplies, and a very expensive Euro war going on.

 

[rcphoto]

Ilfotec-HC is listed at $92.95 at both B&H and Adorama, and $89.99 at Freestyle (which shows it as out of stock). Is that dramatically more than it was before? The equivalent amount of L-110 is about $32 for 1 liter and HC-110 is (was?) $43.99 for 1L (at Freestyle). When my supply of HC-110 runs out I think I'm going to give L-110 a try.

I have been using L-110 since getting back into film. I've been really happy with the results. I'd say it is comparable to HC-110. I'm not sure about longevity though, I try to use a bottle within a year of opening.

 

[mshchem]

Seems to be a couple of versions, the newest under the Kodak brand, some concern that Sino Promise might not be making any Kodak branded products. The ILford version, and Freestyle offers a version under the Legacy label. I was going to buy the ILford version, that was during the worst of the Pandemic and could not find any, I bought the newish Kodak branded version, same development times as the old syrup HC110, good balance of grain, film speed, and contrast. I use Foma 400, Tmax 400, and a few rolls of TriX, all seem to do as well as D76, Clayton F76+ and Photographers Formulary version of D76. I have dumped all of the other developers I had on had, DK 50, MCM 100, and D76, HC110 and Rodinal are the 2 that I keep on hand. I use Rodinal for Foma 100 and Tmax 100.

Legacy Pro L110 is around $17.00 compared to $90 for the Ilford version.

LegacyPro L110 Liquid Film Developer - 1 Pint (Makes 2 Gallo

LegacyPro L110 Film Developer is a highly concentrated liquid developer. It is intended for use with a variety of black and white film. It can be used for replenished and non-replenished systems. Use LegacyPro L110R Developer Replenisher (#10191) to replenish.…

www.freestylephoto.com

Legacy Pro is what all the schools use. I agree that especially for US users the L110 is a good choice.

 

[foc]

I just purchased locally, Bellini HC110 in a 250ml bottle for €16. ( I am in the EU)
I never used the Kodak or Ilford version before, but I will report back when I have a few rolls shot.

 

[logan2z]

I bought the newish Kodak branded version, same development times as the old syrup HC110, good balance of grain, film speed, and contrast.

That's good to know. I have an unopened bottle (that's got an expiry date of 9/23) that I've been reluctant to use since I didn't know how close it matched development times of the old syrupy stuff, and I'm a few rolls away from running out of the syrup.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I just purchased locally, Bellini HC110 in a 250ml bottle for €16. ( I am in the EU)
I never used the Kodak or Ilford version before, but I will report back when I have a few rolls shot.

Let us know if it's thick and syrupy or thin and runny.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Is there much of a difference between these two formula?

Many threads on this, but the one quoted by koraks is the mother lode.

On the 2019 reformulation, worth quoting The Film Developing Cookbook: "HC-110 was reformulated in mid-2019. The hallmark DEA-sulfur addition complex, which conferred its great stability, has gone; it is now a conventional developer."

TFDC says little about Ilfotec HC, other than confirming it is based on HC-110 (pre-reformulation). In other words, according to TFDC, if you want old HC-110, Ilfotec HC will get you closer.

 

[MattKing]

And most importantly, there seems to be an even later than 2019 re-formulation, which may be closer to the pre-2019 formulation, and may have been made in two different parts of the world, and possibly in two different ways.

 

[logan2z]

And most importantly, there seems to be an even later than 2019 re-formulation, which may be closer to the pre-2019 formulation, and may have been made in two different parts of the world, and possibly in two different ways.

This is why I'm giving up on Kodak-branded HC-110*. I really don't know what I'm getting at this point.

*It appears that Kodak may have given up on HC-110 already anyway.

 

[btaylor]

Personal experience with Freestyle's L110, I have been using a bottle for probably 6 years. I make sure the concentrate has no air in the bottle or bag it's kept in. I am down to the last few milliliters and it's still working the way it did when I opened it. It's cheap, it works well, I use the recommended dilutions and times for HC110. What's not to like

 

[logan2z]

Personal experience with Freestyle's L110, I have been using a bottle for probably 6 years. I make sure the concentrate has no air in the bottle or bag it's kept in. I am down to the last few milliliters and it's still working the way it did when I opened it. It's cheap, it works well, I use the recommended dilutions and times for HC110. What's not to like

I'm convinced, ordering some now...

 

[Alan Johnson]

Homemade HC-110 analog

https://telegra.ph/Trying-to-preparation-of-a-concentrate-similar-to-HC-110-new-2019-version-08-21 It's also known as "KGB-20" in runet )))

www.photrio.com

There is also this homebrew substitute for the 2019 version. That is not the traditional high viscosity type.

 

[Roger Cole]

Freestyle currently shows HC-110 in stock, and give the catalog number 1058692. According to info in the thread Matt linked above, that's the catalog number for the post-2019 version (which may be about the same as the old one, but I don't know.)

 

[Paul Howell]

I bought my bottle from Freestyle, it is the post 2019, surprised that Freestyle still has it stock. Next purchase will the smaller bottle of the Legacy Pro version, I just dont shoot enough film at the moment to use a quart bottle within my comfort zone.