Old German LF Lenses

ZenziFriend · Jun 22, 2015

has anyone experiece with old (1900-1945) German LF lenses, in compur shutter.

i have some of them, and plan to use them on my soon coming baby technika III.

I have in good condition (including some working shutters):

Tessar-Type
CZ Tessar 4.5/105 in Compur 00
Contessa Nettel Sonnar-Anastigmat 4.5/135

Doppelanastigmat
Contessa Nettel Doppel-Ana. 6.8/135 (00)
Helioplan (meyer?) 4.5/135 (0)
Steinheil Unofokal 4.5/135 (0)
Schneider Isconar 4.5/135 (0) coming soon

? Type
CZ Preminar 4.5/135
Emil Busch ?-Anastigmat 4.5/150 coming soon

has anyone also experience with use of one group as long lens?

summicron1 · Jun 22, 2015

I have a zeiss tessar on an old, pre-war Speed Graphic that seems to perform very well, at least in the few test shots I took with it. Except for being uncoated, the tessar is a lovely performer and coating doesn't change that much.

Really, there's not all that much difference that will show in your images outside of an optical test bench.

Dan Fromm · Jun 22, 2015

ZenziFriend said:
has anyone also experience with use of one group as long lens?

Interesting question. The normal focal length for 4x5 is 150 mm. All of the lenses you mentioned except the 150/4.5 Busch is a short focus lens on 4x5. The 105/4.5 Tessar is a normal lens for 2x3 (6x9 in metric) and won't cover 4x5.

About "doppelanastigmat." This describes a detail of construction -- the lens contains two moderately to well-corrected anastigmats, one on each side of the diaphragm -- that several different design types fit. These include dialytes (usually 4 elements in 4 groups), dagor types (6/2), double Gauss types (4/4, 6/4), plasmat types (6/4), ...

So, now, what are you trying to accomplish?

Two23 · Jun 22, 2015

My favorite of the pre-war German lenses is the Heliar. MMmmm, Heliar!

Kent in SD

gone · Jun 22, 2015

Yes, you cannot beat an uncoated Heliar. Even a coated one, woo woo. Pay a pretty penny for a LF lens though. The only lens on your list that I owned was the 105 Tessar. Mine was uncoated, sharp, and quite nice.

ZenziFriend · Jun 23, 2015

a well enough Heliar for 6x9 (105mm) ist about 80 Euro in Germany, ebay.
the 135mm more...

bzw: do the old lenses also fit into the 50s "Linhof-Compur" shutters? (Distance between front and rear lens group, if the diameter fits)
I have seen some mixed combos in the net...

Newt_on_Swings · Jun 26, 2015

I shoot with an old schneider symmar 135mm convertible lens. Not sure how old mine is but the website says the design was from the 20s. It's a nice small lens, good shutter but takes a ton of force to cock at the higher speeds. A little lower contrast. Mine is a linhof branded version.

Ian Grant · Jun 27, 2015

Newt_on_Swings said:
I shoot with an old schneider symmar 135mm convertible lens. Not sure how old mine is but the website says the design was from the 20s. It's a nice small lens, good shutter but takes a ton of force to cock at the higher speeds. A little lower contrast. Mine is a linhof branded version.

That's a post WWII coated lens and a modern Plasmat so bears no resemblance to the OP's lenses, initially after WWII Linhof used CZT Tessar lenses switching to West German Tessars in the early 1950's and soon after Symmars as well.

Dan has summed up the OP's possible lens types well, of all of them the 105mm Tessar is possibly the best but dzoesn't cover 5x4. All should be OK on smaller formats as a long lens but a lot will depend on the design and how prone to flare.

There's not a lens that stands out as being possibly exceptional, they need testing. I use uncounted pre-WWII lenses and there's a difference in shadow detail and micro contrast, this is most noticeable comparing similar images shot at the same time with coated/Multi-coated lenses. They are still capable of excellent results though and a current exhibition set I'm working on has images made with a pre-WWII 135mm Tessar as well as a po-WWII coated 150mm CZJ Tessar and modern MC Schneider & Rodenstock lenses, only I could tell you which lenses were used.

Ian

Newt_on_Swings · Jun 27, 2015

I was just going off of their older website: https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/symmar/

Thanks for the info it's good to know. All i really knew was that it was a plasmat. I haven't had the chance to shoot anything really old, haven't really been looking for older lenses as my setup is pretty much where I like it. One of the reasons I keep it around is because it was my first large format lens, and it folds nicely into my wista for travel.

Europan · Jun 27, 2015

My uncoated Euryplan 127-6.3 by Hugo Meyer is a beautiful lens. When I first used Gigabitfilm 25 in 4" × 5" I couldnt believe my eyes. Incredible, what that film takes, and incredible, what the old lens brings.

Of course, the data file off a scan off an enlargement on paper can only give an idea of what one can have in a negative.

MDR · Jun 27, 2015

Contessa Nettel Doppel-Ana. 6.8/135 (00) is missing some info as Nettel had several Doppel Anastigmat with this speed and focal length
Helioplan Hugo Meyer Görlitz 4.5/135 was also used as an enlarging lens is a good dialyte
Steinheil Unofokal 4.5/135 Is a superb lens and very close to the dialyte design on which it improved

Schneider Isconar 4.5/135 is a triplet and not a doppel anastimat. The term Anastigmat was often used for mid to low priced lenses and is usually a triplet design with some exceptions.

The Emil Busch will probably be a dialyte

Dialytes are superb lenses the only drawback is the lower contrast due to the 8 uncoated surfaces. Coated version of the Dialytes are plenty sharp. Even the uncoated ones are very sharp a lens shade will be your friend and enhance the contrast.

ZenziFriend · Jun 30, 2015

The Busch lens is a 4.5/150 glyptar, came for 12 Ezuros with a non-working Compur 1.
I repaired and relubed the compur, and the lens is obviously a "tessar". As it was wirttwn that in the 20s Busch and Zeiss Jena worked close together, it even might be a relabeled original Zeiss Tessar?

My Isconar is definitely no triplet, easily seen when you look at the two parts. It is quite symmetrical, and it is called "doppelanastigmat", double a,, which means both parts are anastigmats... If symmetrical or not can be seen wehen i am metereing the focal length...
The brand Isconar was used after WWII by ISCO (Schneider sub.) for cheap triplets!
Maybe we can also cann it Jconar, als written on the lens (JSCO/ISCO) means Josef Schneider Co. ...

My "sonnar" also is a real Xenar, rebadged, and CZJ used this Contessa-Nettel Brand after the merger quite successful for "some" lenses from mr. Bertele. Successful merger to Zeiss Ikon: Bertele came from Ernemann, "Sonnar" from CN, and Ica the size and marketing power...plus CZ Jena for excellent lens making.

MDR · Jul 1, 2015

The Busch Glyptar Anastigmat is a Tessar type lens. Busch was known for it's good lenses. The Isconar is Dialyte my Mistake. "Sonnar" Rebadging is nothing new it seems

ZenziFriend · Jul 4, 2015

MDR said:
The Busch Glyptar Anastigmat is a Tessar type lens. Busch was known for it's good lenses. The Isconar is Dialyte my Mistake. "Sonnar" Rebadging is nothing new it seems

Yes, the name "sonnar" is so good for lenses, although it does not have to do anything with "Sonne", but with the small german town Sontheim (Home of Contessa Nettel)

The first "Sonnar" appearance and registered trademark was for the Camera (like Voigtländer Bergheil and Avus and Zeiss Maximar...)

BTW:
the Voigtländer Heliar 4.5/105 in Ring Compur 0 is here, clean and working, as it seems...
Are voigtländer Serial Numbers dated? (I think the lens shutter combo is original, so the lens should be 1930-1940 most likely, shutter is 1932/33)

Dan Fromm · Jul 4, 2015

How soon we forget. See http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?123380-Compur-shutter-serial-numbers post #2

ZenziFriend · Jul 4, 2015

i dated the compur 1932/33! just asked for voigtländer numbers, as i have Zeiss and Schneider and Rodenstock serials/dates...

Dan Fromm · Jul 4, 2015

Why should I type a list that you can purchase?

ZenziFriend · Jul 4, 2015

found a source for Voigtländer Serial numbers!

Dead Link Removed

who wanted you to type a list???? And what can I purchase?

BTW: my Heliar is made 1933.

Dan Fromm · Jul 4, 2015

ZenziFriend said:
who wanted you to type a list???? And what can I purchase?

You did. See post #14 above, in which you asked:

Are voigtländer Serial Numbers dated?

Where can you purchase? The link I gave you in post #15 above will take you to the answer. If you don't know what FNAC is, ask Google for help.

Short-term memory is a sometime thing.

Subversive Mk II · Jul 26, 2015

http://motamedi.info/serial.htm

Old German LF Lenses

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