Old film, shorter time?

AndersPS · Jan 11, 2011

I´ve bought 30,5m of expired(may 09) some time ago, and I´ve developed it the time that where on digital truth. But the neg. had no coverage(?), there where almost no picture..does anyone know what I mean?

Should I reduce or extend the time?

///Anders S

hpulley · Jan 11, 2011

What does the film leader look like, is it dark or thin?

Are the negatives too dark, too black? Or too thin, too clear?

wblynch · Jan 11, 2011

May 2009 is not really old. If the negatives are too clear you need more exposure or more development time.

AndersPS · Jan 11, 2011

hpulley said:
What does the film leader look like, is it dark or thin?

Are the negatives too dark, too black? Or too thin, too clear?

I´d say to clear!

AndersPS · Jan 11, 2011

How much more time do you think I need? I use Rodinal "New" and the dilution 1+25 and the film Ilford Delta 100 and where developed for 9 min...

///Anders S

k_jupiter · Jan 11, 2011

AndersPS said:
How much more time do you think I need? I use Rodinal "New" and the dilution 1+25 and the film Ilford Delta 100 and where developed for 9 min...

///Anders S

Sacrifice a roll and do an exposure test. Get a gray card, meter on it, and then do a step reduction from plus 5 to minus 5 exposure steps. Develop normally and see what the correct exposure is for just getting an image. That is zone 2. open up three stops and you'll be in the ball park.

tim in san jose

hpulley · Jan 11, 2011

May 2009 is nothing. I have much older Delta 100 and it works just fine at full 100 speed.

I don't use Rodinal but Kodak HC-110 dilution B (1+31) for 6:00-7:00 19-20C or Ilfotec DD-X for 12:00-14:00 19-20C is great every time.

burchyk · Jan 11, 2011

Next time try doing (and making notes of) bracketed shots and increase development time by 50%

wblynch · Jan 11, 2011

AndersPS said:
How much more time do you think I need? I use Rodinal "New" and the dilution 1+25 and the film Ilford Delta 100 and where developed for 9 min...

///Anders S

Here's something I've done with unknown old 35mm film (1980~) that gave me printable/scannable results...

I cut the leader off the roll before spooling it into the tank.
I take the leader and cut it into 3 pieces. (to keep track of which was which.. you could cut little notches in them first)
In the full light of the room, I put some developer in a small cup and drop one piece of film, after 2 minutes I drop the second piece, after 4 minutes I drop the third piece.
After 8 minutes I took out all three pieces, dropped them into fixer for another 8 minutes. (I might do a separate fixer test but that's aside from this).

After the fix I rinse off the pieces and hold them up to the light.

The piece that I can just barely see through tells me I need a time slightly longer than that. (Meaning, if I can just barely see through the 6 minute piece and the 8 minute piece is solid, then I'll start with 6.5 minutes)

If the 8 minute piece is still too clear, then I know I need to add more time. The progression from 4 to 6 to 8 can give me an idea of how much development more time will give.

You may need to run a second test with 8-10-12 minutes but you get the concept.

I hope this is helpful.

-Bill

burchyk · Jan 11, 2011

Ops, missed your post saying the film is Delta 100 and dev is Rodinal 1:25 for 9m; that time should be more than enough. I would look into other variables first

Christopher Walrath · Jan 11, 2011

What ISO did you expose the film at? How old is the Rodinal?

AndersPS · Jan 12, 2011

Christopher Walrath said:
What ISO did you expose the film at? How old is the Rodinal?

I exposed it at ISO 100. The rodinal have been opened around the summer 2010 and have stored dark and cold. I bought the rodinal because it´s a oneshot developer and I´ve read that the rodinal have a long shelflife even when it´s opened.

I´ve thought about to buy HC 110. Is that developer better? Is it a liquid or powder?

///Anders S

AndersPS · Jan 12, 2011

And I just want to say once again you´ve answered fast and with many useful tips. The time difference between makes it hard to reply faster

Thank you!

///Anders S

Huub · Jan 12, 2011

I would suspect the Rodinal New, not de Delta100. The old Rodinal had an ever lasting shelf life - there are reports the New doesn't have this feature, though the 6 months since the summer of 2010 is not that much. Try a different developer. HC110 is nice if you want a one shot developer. Lot's of people have good experiences with it. It comes in liquid form - but it is a thick, sticky fluid that might be hard to measure accurately in small quantities. Personnaly i prefer XTOL - but that comes as a powder. Has a good shelf life, and gives a good balance between speed and accutance. I use XTOL one shot in a 1+1 dilution.

Steve Smith · Jan 12, 2011

Are the edge markings on the film visible?

As a (very) rough guide, if they are fairly dense then the development is o.k. and there was not enough exposure. If the edge markings are feint then there was not enough development.

Steve.

AndersPS · Jan 12, 2011

Steve Smith said:
Are the edge markings on the film visible?

As a (very) rough guide, if they are fairly dense then the development is o.k. and there was not enough exposure. If the edge markings are feint then there was not enough development.

Steve.

The edgemarkings are black and very clear visible...

hpulley · Jan 12, 2011

AndersPS said:
I exposed it at ISO 100. The rodinal have been opened around the summer 2010 and have stored dark and cold. I bought the rodinal because it´s a oneshot developer and I´ve read that the rodinal have a long shelflife even when it´s opened.

I´ve thought about to buy HC 110. Is that developer better? Is it a liquid or powder?

///Anders S

How much air is in the container of Rodinal? Is it filled to the top or half empty? If half empty it will oxidize very quicky, even in cold and dark.

HC 110 is great! It is cheap and as it is a syrup it lasts for years and years but it is easy to mix like a liquid. It contains no water so it doesn't oxidize until you dilute it.

If you want smaller grain then Ilfotec DD-X liquid works a bit better with Delta 100 but takes twice as long to develop and it doesn't last that long. Once you open it, you need to finish it within six months and once it is half empty you need to pour it off into a smaller 500mL bottle or it will go even faster. Liquids just don't last.

Another alternative is a powder that's available in small packs. Sadly you can't get Microphen in 600mL packs from Ilford anymore though I have a store here that still has some. You can do 2-3 rolls in Microphen stock or 4-5 at 1:1 or even more at 1:3 as needed with the 600mL package and then toss it, no need to store it at all.

Steve Smith · Jan 12, 2011

AndersPS said:
The edgemarkings are black and very clear visible...

Then I would assume that the development is o.k. (if not absolutely correct, then at least close).

Steve.

Anon Ymous · Jan 12, 2011

I have a half full bottle of Rodinal that is roughly 3 years old. It has turned dark brown and it has some precipitate at the bottom. It was made by A&O chemicals and it's the same stuff as "R09 One Shot", or any other name it might be called nowadays. It works as it should and shows absolutely no signs of reduced activity. Rodinal that comes from the ex Agfa factory will keep exceptionally long. If your edge markings are dense, then look elsewhere, it's not the developer that is your problem.

BTW, what's Rodinal "New"? What's the full name of your Rodinal and by which company?

burchyk · Jan 12, 2011

If the edge markings are black it means your developer works well. Which means you are not giving enough exposure

AndersPS · Jan 12, 2011

Anon Ymous said:
BTW, what's Rodinal "New"? What's the full name of your Rodinal and by which company?

It´s the Fomadon R09 "New". I thought it where just foma who did the rodinal but now I know that´s not the case

AndersPS · Jan 12, 2011

hpulley said:
How much air is in the container of Rodinal? Is it filled to the top or half empty? If half empty it will oxidize very quicky, even in cold and dark.

It´s about halfempty. I saw threads about the rodinal here and on other sites and how great shelflife it had, that´s why I bought it and didn´t think that it would get bad...

///Anders S

j-dogg · Jan 12, 2011

This thread is relevant to my interests, halfway through a brick of Tmax 3200 exp. 10/2001

Anon Ymous · Jan 13, 2011

AndersPS said:
It´s the Fomadon R09 "New". I thought it where just foma who did the rodinal but now I know that´s not the case

Does the label say anything about where it was produced? And how about its colour, before opening the bottle. Was it clear and straw coloured, or was it dark from the beginning? For the record, there are two different Rodinal type developers. One is made by the ex Agfa factory and the other one is made by Calbe. Foma used to sell the Calbe variant (pre WWII Rodinal formula) under the name Fomadon R09, but I'm not sure what they do nowadays.

Old film, shorter time?

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