Old film/contrast/GAF Super Hypan

[newcan1]

I have been doing some exposure and development experiments with some 35mm GAF Super Hypan film that I acquired a ton of. I have bracketed it at 25, 50, 100, and 200 ASA, and I have developed it so far in D76 1:1, D76d stock, Ansco 47 stock, and Perceptol stock. The film seems to expose best somewhere between 50 and 100ASA, or 25 with Perceptol, but in each test, contrast has been low. There is some base fog, although manageable.

I know that orthodoxy suggests that fog will contribute to lower contrast, but I am not convinced that that is the whole story here. If I look at the film leaders, they are a bit thin. Or at least I can see through them if I put them to my eye and look at a window. My main question for today is: is it possible that old film might need a longer development time than a fresh counterpart? I know I can and will figure this by doing more tests, but I am trying to get my mind more completely around what happens to film as it ages. slower speed and base fog I am familiar with, but in this case, I wonder if part of the apparent speed loss has to do with the possibility that the film is not fully developed at "standard" development times.

 

[Paul Howell]

I would do a ring around test, using ASA 80 as base shoot a set up. In open shade, white object, black object, a clear jar, a 18% gray card or pint a zone scale large enough to see. If possible have a live model. Start with metered at ASA 80 then 1, 2 and 3 stops under, then 1, 2 and 3 stops over. Do this 4 times. If the hyperpan is in bulk rolls you can roll 10 exposure, if on rolls then measure how many frames to the inch and once out of the can set up a ruler with a tactical mark so you can cut the film into the proper lengths. As you have already established normal at ASA around 80, you can start with + 10%, 15%, 20% last 25%. As you add time you might to adjust your personal E.I. If fog increases you might want to consider HC 110, I have found that HC 110 is very good for very old film. You might need to make final adjustment either in the darkroom or in PS. Given that GAF stopped making film and paper 40 years it is somewhat remarkable that you are getting a printable image. I don't recall what ASA GAF rated hyperpan, was it 100 or the 500?

 

[Paul Howell]

I found it my 60s vintage Encyclopedia of Photography which lists with an ASA of 500, looks like over the years it lost 2 to 3 stops of speed. I only used it in 35mm, a lot of grain, when in the Air Force we would get a shipment of the stuff, lest favorite.

 

[newcan1]

The film is 35mm, originally rated the old ASA 320 (i.e., 400). It is on 100ft rolls and I have loaded cartridges with 10 exp for experimentation. I am not interested in "hybrid" solutions; I am striving to see if a good 11 x 14 darkroom print can be the end result. Even doubling development times from "normal", while increasing density, does not do much to enhance contrast. And then when developed in a developer like D76, the grain is horribly ugly. Grain in Perceptol was very manageable. However, I am not sure if massively increasing development time in Perceptol actually increases density/contrast, or whether it decreases density, given the solvent effect (I am no chemist). In Perceptol, I had developed in stock for 12mins. At 25 ASA, negatives were still a bit thin and lacking contrast. I haven't tried Xtol yet.

I am wondering if I should try part developing in Perceptol, to establish finer grain, then part develop in a high contrast film developer to see if density/contrast can be boosted without the grain becoming horrible. I have about 1,000ft of this stuff, so it is worth some further experimentation. Thoughts?

 

[Paul Howell]

I recall using Microdal X in order reduce the gain, improved, but some loss of film speed. What we used had a posted ASA of 500, we shot at 200 when developing in Microdal X. Of course Microdal X is the Kodak version of Perceptol, you can get it from Freestyle under their Legacy brand in gallon size. My old Kodak Data Guide list Microdal X stock and TriX professional normal at 8.5mint, higher contrast 12, which may be too high. Due to base fog you might need to bleach the highlights. We also used GAF 17, a softer working version of D76, grain was finer than in D76 without as much loss of speed.

But if it was me, I would use MCM 100. This is an version of Miniature Camera Magazine formula, from the old days when 35mm film was very grainy. It uses P_phenylenediamine with produces very fine grain and Catechol for film speed with good tones. It is toxic, need to use gloves and a dust mask. I get mine from Photographer's Formulary. I don't think it will increase base fog more than D76 or Microdal, the fog is baked into the emulsion and will be present with what ever developer you use. With Catechol there is some tanning which will help with the tones. I print 11X14 with no issues, but with 4 decades old GAF, well good luck.


Here is a sample of a scanned print of Ultrafine 400 in MCM 100. UF 400 is not fine grain. Not the best scan, but will give you an idea of good the gain is.

 

[newcan1]

[QUOTE="Paul Howell, post: 2062143, member: 3862"

Here is a sample of a scanned print of Ultrafine 400 in MCM 100. UF 400 is not fine grain. Not the best scan, but will give you an idea of good the gain is.[/QUOTE]

That really is good. I have Ultrafine 400 and it is quite a grainy emulsion. The thing about my Ansco film though is that the grain is not only large but UGLY. I am going to go ahead with my two developer idea this afternoon and see what happens.

 

[Paul Howell]

If that does not work you can try Dinafine, if it very fine grain but low contrast, you will need to print at grade 3 or 4. As I thought about it, Diafine is panthermic, so you can develop at 60 degrees and as each bath is 3mint and 3 mints might reduce fog. With a 1000 feet of the GAF any port in a storm.

 

[newcan1]

Here are some examples from my 2-developer experiment. The benefits from Perceptol were largely lost, the grain is huge. But it is considerably less ugly; the "look" may have a place somewhere. The D19 boosted contrast. Now I am wondering if I should try D19 with sodium chloride added -- sort of a high contrast Perceptol.

 

[newcan1]

Results with D19 with salt added were similar to the above, although effective film speed increased to a solid ASA 100. For my next trick, I will try Xtol.

 

[Paul Howell]

In terms of ugly grain, any high silvery solvent will cause ragged edges, seems counter intuitive buy you need a developer designed for sharpness not grain. The images very good considering the film is at least 41 years old. GAF stopped making film and paper in 1977 (?) and you have the high speed most likely to fog. You might want to try DK50, full film speed with excellent acuity, years ago I used DK50 with Plus X in 4X5, tones are good as well. I think Photographers Formulary sells a version in quart sizes. The reason MCM 100 or Edwal 12 produces such good gain with acuity is that they are physical developers. Still, GAF hyperpan or 500 was just an awful film and your doing a great job of making a silk purse out of sows ear.

 

[newcan1]

Thanks, Paul. I looked at the MCM 100 and I may buy the raw ingredients to mix a stock of that. I am interested to see what different looks I can get with this film. The grain with D19 was a bit less ragged than the images above, and lent sort of a retro look that might be good for certain types of images. But I really would like to see if I can find something that would produce a more "normal" grain size. Perceptol on its own did, but the negatives were thin and lacking contrast. I may try that again, but with development time doubled. Home brew perceptol is very cheap, and I have a lifetime supply of metol!

 

[Paul Howell]

If you double the development time you will increase gain along with contrast. You might need to shoot at ISO 40, Perceptol like Microdal X cuts film speed by about half, so if think 80 or so in the ISO then you need to shoot at 40 when using Percetol. DYI MCM 100 is much cheaper than the kit from PF, I've been thinking about hunting up my Kodak balance scale, pretend I'm back in College. If you mix your own MCM you might want to try Edwal 12. High contrast, used for line reproduction. I use Edwal 12 in the summer, on occasion, here in the desert the sun can very bright but due to all the reflected light low contrast. It will blow out a highlight so be careful how you meter, it better to let the shadows go rather than the highs. Both MCM and Edwal last and last. I hadn't used MCM in over a year, found it in the back of cabinet and gave it a shot, still work, bought a new kit, tossed 1/2 of the old stock, filtered the remaining, added 16oz of new and kept the remaining 16 oz for replenishment 1oz for every 36exp roll or roll of MF or sheet of 4X5. Current stock is now over 3 years old.

 

[Nokton48]

I have a couple of tins of 70mm GAF film I have been thinking about investigating. Will have to dig them out.