Old Color Print Paper - Ilfordchrome A + Unidentified

RandomRay · Oct 18, 2021

Amongst my darkroom acquisitions, I have found the following photo paper:

In Paper Safe:

Ilfordchrome A - One opened but sealed envelope. I don't know how many sheets, maybe 10. I am sure they are AT LEAST 30 years old, maybe older, and I have now way of telling how they have been stored, except that the last 15 years they have been in a cool-ish basement.

Two opened but resealed envelopes of some unidentified Photo Paper

In Box:

One somewhat full box of AGFA Professional AGFACOLOR CN 312/7 PE 3. I know that this paper has seen heat for a while, probably 10 years in an unheated / uncooled house.

I don't have any color chemicals, nor do I intend to get color chems.

1: Is there any reason to not pitch the Ilfordchrome? If not, what should I do with it?
2: Is there any reason to not pitch the AGFACOLOR? If not, what should I do with it?
3: How do I figure out what is in the mystery envelopes? I could b/w expose them, and then develop, I'm pretty sure I could figure out if they were BW print paper, but what would I get if they were color, and then what to do with it?

Just trying to clean up the darkroom.

Ray

Paul Howell · Oct 18, 2021

Good question. I don't think any of it will be good, but you can always cut a test strip and in total darkness give a soak in B&W developer to see how fogged it is, if any image will come up at all. Without the couplers and bleach fix don't think you will even get an image even if the paper was fresh

DREW WILEY · Oct 18, 2021

Why waste the time? It's unlikely you'll get anything out of them. But the Ilfochrome is probably not paper at all, unless it's labeled "Pearl", but nice thick glossy polyester stock, excellent for making things like sizing masks for negative carriers.

RandomRay · Oct 18, 2021

I tried the Ilfordchrome in Dektol (why not?) All I got was a black sheet (probably polyester - thanks Drew). Looks like I have something to put in my Trash!!

AgX · Oct 18, 2021

There was no Ilfordchrome.

Ilfochrome (1962-1963)

RandomRay · Oct 18, 2021

AgX - I stand corrected! Thanks.

The only documentation I had on the film was on the black envelope in the paper safe, so I typed the post up from (faulty) memory.

AgX · Oct 18, 2021

And there was no Ilfochrome A either... Cibachrome A is so to say the 3rd generation successor of the Ilfochrome paper.

In this case you even stayed quite on track. But sometimes even just one letter makes a photographic material something completely different, due to the complexity of the world of colour materials

wiltw · Oct 19, 2021

Ciba and Ilford had a joint venture in Cibachrome. Cibachrome as a brand existed up to about 1992, when the rights to the product went entirely to Ilford and the color print paper and chemistry had to be branded Ilfochrome.
That label looks like the early period stuff, carrying the Ciba name and the Ilford name! on the label. I printed with Cibachrome, and then I printed with Ifochrome Classic, but I nevertheless call it all 'Cibachrome' because that changed the darkroom world for me. I find no brand markings on the back side of prints of 1994 vintage.
Ilfochrome, when frozen, can be preserved nearly a decade before color shifts begin to appear in the paper. The same can be said of the P3/P3X chemistry, storage up to a year. That paper is probably going to exhibit color shift, if the chemistry could be procured.

Don_ih · Oct 19, 2021

RandomRay said:
How do I figure out what is in the mystery envelopes? I could b/w expose them, and then develop, I'm pretty sure I could figure out if they were BW print paper, but what would I get if they were color, and then what to do with it?

Rip a corner off a sheet in complete darkness. Look at it in the light. If it's brown, it's Cibacrome. If it's blue, it's colour paper. If it's white, it's b&w. Colour paper would only get a very faint image if exposed and developed in Dektol (at least that's all I got) - and the safelight has to be off.

I got a bunch of Cibachrome paper and chemistry thrown in with an enlarger (Omega D2) purchase a few years ago. I never bothered to try. The paper was stored in the cardboard envelopes but had been removed from the light-tight bags. Likely, the previous owner had stored them in a light-tight cabinet. And the chemistry was eating through the packaging...

AgX · Oct 19, 2021

wiltw said:
Ciba and Ilford had a joint venture in Cibachrome.

Actually Ciba bought Ilford and by this the endeavours of both forms on the field of silver-dye-bleach processes were combined and concentrated

RandomRay · Oct 19, 2021

Ok, so the plot thickens......

I tried out the Cibachrome (from the Cibachrome bag, above) in my process (Dektol, stop, fixer, etc.) and got nothing (I wasn't expecting anything, but it's worth a try....) so I pitched the rest (only a few sheets).

I got the box "AGFACOLOR" from the estate of photographer. He had photographed a lot of color paper. I took and exposed one of the sheets in the box, exposed and processed in Dektol, and it came out OK (a little foggy, but not garbage. So, my question now is whether this is AGFACOLOR or if it is standard B&W paper that just got put in that box?

Don_ih · Oct 19, 2021

RandomRay said:
So, my question now is whether this is AGFACOLOR or if it is standard B&W paper that just got put in that box?

Looks like b&w paper. Before you exposed it, was it blue? Seems to have too much density for colour paper, though.
I assume Agfacolor paper is blue....

RandomRay · Oct 19, 2021

Yes, the paper had a slight blue tinge to it before processing..... so does that make it color paper?

DREW WILEY · Oct 19, 2021

Blue papers were ordinary chromogenic color papers (not chromolytic like Ciba).

wiltw · Oct 19, 2021

AgX said:
Actually Ciba bought Ilford and by this the endeavours of both forms on the field of silver-dye-bleach processes were combined and concentrated

Publicly available information says...

Originally Cibachrorme development was a joint venture during the 1960s. Ciba AG became involved with Ilford Photo in 1961, which was the start of research in photographic film that led to the production of Cibachrome. The Cibachrome process was first trademarked and marketed as Cibachrome in 1963.
Ciba AG became the sole shareholder of Ilford in 1969.
Ciba sold Ilford to International Paper in 1989, and because Ciba was no longer involved by ownership or partnership, in 1992 the renaming to Ilfochrome occurred by Ciba demand.

Paul Howell · Oct 19, 2021

If you processed under a safe light it is not color paper, a OC or Red safelight would fog any color paper. No sure about the blue tint, but looks like a warm tone paper, may not even be Agfa, for some reason it was put in color paper package for storage.

AgX · Oct 19, 2021

wiltw said:
Publicly available information says...

Originally Cibachrome development was a joint venture during the 1960s. Ciba AG became involved with Ilford Photo in 1961, which was the start of research in photographic film that led to the production of Cibachrome.3

Publicly available does not mean that it is true. I got different information. But I shall leave it at this. The history of colour photography is most complex, involving processes. materials and firms mostly unknown today. What we should know though is that the 60's were the years were an economic concentration took place, ending with just few firms busy on this field.

RandomRay · Oct 20, 2021

Ok, here is that unidentified potentially AGFACHROME Paper...
It prints, though fogged (see the image above).
It turns my developer BLUE (?).
Attached please find image. First (blue) sheet is undeveloped, out of bag, second is exposed and developed / stop / fix, third (and fogged) is fixed only.

So, is this color paper, or did some form of B/W wind up in the box?

Don_ih · Oct 20, 2021

The b&w print you made was on b&w paper. I just don't believe colour paper would give you that contrast and density. The blue paper (and the other sheets, I believe) -- colour paper for enlarging negatives - like Drew said above.

MattKing · Oct 20, 2021

Sometimes old photographic paper changes colour as it deteriorates due to age and storage conditions, so the colour you see may not be a great indicator.
Do any of the papers have a backprint on them?

Old Color Print Paper - Ilfordchrome A + Unidentified

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