Old ¿Welta? 9 x 12cm Folding Plate Camera

Jaume Tormo · Aug 16, 2023

Dear all,

First of all, thank you very much to everybody for the very interesting discussions here in the forum. My name is Jaume, this is my first post, please if it does not fit here tell me and I will move it where you tell me.

I have recently purchased the camera in the pictures here:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vvfq7pxapmra9wc/AACtxUssI4b44VuyKXePt2Sja?dl=0

I need any clues about the camera. I think it is some kind of Welta, being the most similar picture I managed to find the one in this webpage:

http://www.cjs-classic-cameras.co.uk/other/welta.html

Or in this one:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/welta-x-12cm-folding-plate-camera-1916623499

But mine does not have nor what I think is a viewfinder neither the wire frame to frame the picture.

Any ideas or clues of where to find more information?

Thank you very much.

xya · Aug 16, 2023

I don't have or know anything about this one, but you can find more information on 9x12 cameras on my website https://www.oddcameras.com/old_9x12.htm There are parts missing on this camera. You need at least a ground glass to focus or a brilliant finder and use the scale on the bed or a wire frame as your camera has the aiming device for a wire frame.

It seems to be in good shape. 9x12 film is still available. It's fun to use. Good luck!

Alex Varas · Aug 16, 2023

Welcome, Jaume!

I think it’s a Welta or at least it was manufactured by Welta because the handles for pulling the shutter plate out.
The cover for the ground glass has no Welta lettering written (as far as I know all Welta cameras had) that’s why I think it was sold by another company (rebadged is the word?)
Not wearing a Xenar (Welta top notch stuff had Xenars on them) also makes me think of a rebadged camera/lens combo.

As Xya said no brilliant finder (I don’t see marks of broken one) but at least I see there are hangers for the wire frame that is missing in your camera. Without ground glass framing will be really difficult.

Cut film holders for this camera will be tricky because I think they used a different standard than Voigtlander or Zeiss (ICA) doing more difficult to get any.
Same with Rolex film holders.

Regards,
Alex

JPD · Aug 16, 2023

Yes, it could have been made by Welta. They were often sold rebranded, so that's probably why it has no maker's markings.

To use it it would need a new groundglass, and the light seals in the back need to be replaced.

The Doppel-Anastigmat Isconar is a good four element dialyt lens. It's similar to the Rodenstock Eurynar, Steinheil Unofokal and Goerz Celor/Syntor/Dogmar.

Jaume Tormo · Aug 17, 2023

Thank you very much Xya, Alex and JPD.

Very interesting information.
I'm quite surprised about the camera, I bought it in a flea market in England for £10 thinking that it would be unusable. Whith the only idea of using the lens for other projects... And I think I would be able even to take pictures with it. The shutter seems to work... I have no idea of how exactly... I will report.

Jaume.

Jonathan-sv · Aug 26, 2023

I've been 3-d printing backs for 9x12 cameras that take standard 4x5 or 9x12 cut film holders. Have one for a Bergheil and what I suspect is an Ihagee (but is unbranded). But the posts are all in the plate camera forum.

Jaume Tormo · Aug 26, 2023

Jonathan-sv said:
I've been 3-d printing backs for 9x12 cameras that take standard 4x5 or 9x12 cut film holders. Have one for a Bergheil and what I suspect is an Ihagee (but is unbranded). But the posts are all in the plate camera forum.

Hello Jonathan,
I am not sure what you mean. Are you offering to print and sell filmholders for the Welta?

Jaume

Jonathan-sv · Aug 27, 2023

Hello Jaume,

Sorry for being a bit terse in my comments. I don't really want to make these adapters as a business, but it is something that I have done for the two 9x12 cameras that I have. I have other cameras that take 4x5 film, and while 9x12 film is available (and I do have some plate holders and film sheaths for the plate cameras), I am set up to develop and scan 4x5 film.

The adapters take a standard 4x5 (or 9x12) film holder that are generally available. They are 3-d printed, but you can download the files you need to make these from thingiverse. The original post is

International back for Voigtländer Avus 9x12 by ekech

There are lots of different folding cameras for 9x12 glass plates from the beginning of the 20th century.Popular examples are the Voigtländer Avus or Bergheil cameras as well as Ernemann, Zeiss ICA, Steinheil, but there are lots of different brands and builds which are quite similar.In rare...

www.thingiverse.com

and he made the adapter for a Voigtländer Avus. The adapter plate for the Avus didn't fit my Bergheil, so I have a remix there

International back for Voigtländer Bergheil 9 x 12 by jonayuen

I wanted to use standard sheet film holders in a 100-year-old Voigtländer Bergheil plate camera. This camera is similar to the Avus, just a different model. These cameras originally took glass plates, but adapters are available to insert 9 x 12 cm sheet film in the holders. I had no holders...

www.thingiverse.com

This adapter plate is a bit wider (both the part that slots into the camera and the entire adapter. This spaced the whole assembly further from the lens assembly and it covers 4x5 on the Bergheil.

As it turned out, the 'Avus' adapter plate (which I had printed for the Bergheil but it didn't fit) did go into the Ihaghee with a bit of filing and sanding. So I made another adapter for it (just the part that goes into the camera), and I can move the ground glass assembly etc. between the two cameras.

I downloaded the files from Thingiverse and used Freecad to design the adapter for the Bergheil.

If you want to go this route, you have to be comfortable working with your hands, but it was mostly sanding, filing, and glueing. I don't have a 3-d printer so I found a company (actually just some students) that printed the parts for me. I paid more for the 3-d parts than I did for the cameras.

If the bellows on your Welta are light tight (or reasonably so) and the focussing rack etc. works OK, you can have a really small and light 4x5 camera by making the adapter. Both of mine are smaller than any 4x5 camera I have, but the lenses on my cameras are not interchangeable.

I think there are some blog things about this kind of adapter by Roger Hyam.

There are probably more people with this sort of camera looking at the forum on plate cameras.

Jonathan

Jaume Tormo · Aug 27, 2023

Jonathan-sv said:
Hello Jaume,

Sorry for being a bit terse in my comments. I don't really want to make these adapters as a business, but it is something that I have done for the two 9x12 cameras that I have. I have other cameras that take 4x5 film, and while 9x12 film is available (and I do have some plate holders and film sheaths for the plate cameras), I am set up to develop and scan 4x5 film.

The adapters take a standard 4x5 (or 9x12) film holder that are generally available. They are 3-d printed, but you can download the files you need to make these from thingiverse. The original post is

International back for Voigtländer Avus 9x12 by ekech

There are lots of different folding cameras for 9x12 glass plates from the beginning of the 20th century.Popular examples are the Voigtländer Avus or Bergheil cameras as well as Ernemann, Zeiss ICA, Steinheil, but there are lots of different brands and builds which are quite similar.In rare...

www.thingiverse.com

and he made the adapter for a Voigtländer Avus. The adapter plate for the Avus didn't fit my Bergheil, so I have a remix there

International back for Voigtländer Bergheil 9 x 12 by jonayuen

I wanted to use standard sheet film holders in a 100-year-old Voigtländer Bergheil plate camera. This camera is similar to the Avus, just a different model. These cameras originally took glass plates, but adapters are available to insert 9 x 12 cm sheet film in the holders. I had no holders...

www.thingiverse.com

This adapter plate is a bit wider (both the part that slots into the camera and the entire adapter. This spaced the whole assembly further from the lens assembly and it covers 4x5 on the Bergheil.

As it turned out, the 'Avus' adapter plate (which I had printed for the Bergheil but it didn't fit) did go into the Ihaghee with a bit of filing and sanding. So I made another adapter for it (just the part that goes into the camera), and I can move the ground glass assembly etc. between the two cameras.

I downloaded the files from Thingiverse and used Freecad to design the adapter for the Bergheil.

If you want to go this route, you have to be comfortable working with your hands, but it was mostly sanding, filing, and glueing. I don't have a 3-d printer so I found a company (actually just some students) that printed the parts for me. I paid more for the 3-d parts than I did for the cameras.

If the bellows on your Welta are light tight (or reasonably so) and the focussing rack etc. works OK, you can have a really small and light 4x5 camera by making the adapter. Both of mine are smaller than any 4x5 camera I have, but the lenses on my cameras are not interchangeable.

I think there are some blog things about this kind of adapter by Roger Hyam.

There are probably more people with this sort of camera looking at the forum on plate cameras.

Jonathan

Wow! Thank you very much Jonathan!

Old ¿Welta? 9 x 12cm Folding Plate Camera

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