ok I will have my first 4x5 camera .... what kind of film (hope its correct forum)

Regular Rod said:

Just because you are starting out doesn't mean your eye is at fault. You might waste a bit of film through operational errors but if your eye is good and you get it right you will make great images right from the start. So, use the best quality film you can buy. Imagine creating an image of a lifetime only to find you had a faulty sheet of cheap film in that marred your image. ILFORD film is free of such defects.

RR

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I'd agree if I knew of any faulty film. I've gone through a few boxes of the Arista branded Foma and I've never had a bad sheet (nor a bad roll in 120.) It is very soft when wet and has to be handled gently and I HAVE scratched it until I realized how tender it is, but it isn't bad film. If you take a good photo on it you will have a good photo.

Since the OP is just starting out with large format, doesn't it make more sense for him to use a film which does not require "special handing?" As was pointed out, x-ray film does not "see" the same as "real film" and requires different handling, which to me doesn't sound like the place for a beginner to start. Similarly, if the Arista.edu films are very soft when wet, and need especially gentle handling, that doesn't sound ideal for a beginner (particularly if he might try tray development). I would try to remove as many variables as possible, so that the OP has the greatest chance for success. That points me back to the "major" film brands, either Ilford (which I recommended in an early post) or Kodak.

They're not THAT soft. If someone has been doing darkroom work all along just a word "hey, these are soft when wet, be careful with 'em" should be fine.

Not sure I'd want to tray process them but then again I've never tried tray processing any of my sheet film. I have a Jobo as choice #1 and a set of hangers and deep tanks for choice #2.

I think a blanket condemnation of something just because it doesn't happen to be the current fad is not a good thing. Color blind films were good for the first 100 years of photographers, and stuck to for quite a while by portraitists, because of the great skin rendition.

Cheap and inspection development are a big deal for beginners. The sharpness problem is more theoretical than real. . . Take a look at peoples' results for the real fact of that.

palewin said:

Since the OP is just starting out with large format, doesn't it make more sense for him to use a film which does not require "special handing?" As was pointed out, x-ray film does not "see" the same as "real film" and requires different handling, which to me doesn't sound like the place for a beginner to start. Similarly, if the Arista.edu films are very soft when wet, and need especially gentle handling, that doesn't sound ideal for a beginner (particularly if he might try tray development). I would try to remove as many variables as possible, so that the OP has the greatest chance for success. That points me back to the "major" film brands, either Ilford (which I recommended in an early post) or Kodak.

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I think film choice should be based upon what the photographer needs/intends to do with the film.

Sure, there are some purely technical considerations when moving to large format, especially if one is just learning tray development, loading holders, etc. So, I can see buying a box of very inexpensive film to practice all this with. I would even recommend sacrificing a few sheets to play with in the light, loading holders, shuffling in trays (or loading in your processing tank/holders - whatever you have).

When the techniques have been learned, however, then it's time to make a decision based on how and what you'll be shooting.

Keep in mind, that LF often requires a slower shutter speed than other formats if you want lots of depth of field. Having the camera on a tripod would seem to take care of this, but it doesn't compensate for subject movement. If you plan on shooting where the wind is blowing things around or the waves are moving or people are moving or whatever, you may find that a faster film than what you would choose for a smaller format will be necessary. FWIW, I don't normally take slower than Tri-X (rated at E.I. 250) with me into the field. I tried T-Max 100 (shot at E.I. 80) for a while, but simply couldn't use it as much as I needed due to subject movement problems.

OTOH, if your subjects are going to be really motionless, then use the slowest, finest-grain film you can get away with. It's really the same compromise you make with any format, just "on steroids" a bit due to the slower shutter speeds used in LF.

Another consideration is simply the characteristics of the films you are considering. Slower film and T-Max/Delta films have less grain, but grain isn't as much of an issue with 4x5 until you print larger than 11x14. Tonal rendering, film toe and shoulder, reciprocity characteristics and the like are often very different from film to film. 320Tri-X, for example, has a long sweeping toe that can render a lot of detail down into the shadows, but at the expense of shadow separation. TMax400 has a much straighter toe, which dumps the shadows more quickly, but gives you greater contrast between the values that are recorded. Ilford films have their own characteristics as well. Delta and TMax films have generally better reciprocity characteristics than "conventional" films, as does Fuji Acros. If you plan on doing lots of low-light/night shooting, then one of them may be for you.

There aren't that many B&W films out there in 4x5 any more, so do your homework a bit, pick one, or maybe two, films to test and work with and go from there. FWIW, I've tested out Tri-X, TMY, TMX and use them all now. I don't the Ilford films for the simple reason that I just don't have the time at the moment to do the tests I need to start using them. I'm sure they are good films too, but I've been getting good results from the Kodak products for years now and feel at home with them. However, if I were starting out I would likely try an Ilford product (e.g. HP-5 instead of Tri-X) just because of the price difference. Again, you need to decide.

In the end, the exact film you use is much less important than what you point your camera at.

Have fun,

Doremus

palewin said:

Similarly, if the Arista.edu films are very soft when wet, and need especially gentle handling, that doesn't sound ideal for a beginner (particularly if he might try tray development). I would try to remove as many variables as possible, so that the OP has the greatest chance for success. That points me back to the "major" film brands, either Ilford (which I recommended in an early post) or Kodak.

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This was my experience when I bought my Speed Graphic. I got a box of Arista, figuring it was cheap and would be good for practicing loading, shooting, and processing. But I had a hard time getting the sheets processed without a scratch. So I splurged and bought a Jobo tank.

Otherwise, it would be hard to go far wrong with anything from Kodak or Ilford. Everyone has their favorites, but they're all good. Ilford, obviously, has earned a lot of goodwill here on Apug. And for the moment at least here in the US, pricing is relatively advantageous. Fuji Acros is, for me, too expensive in 4x5 to think about using, though I like it in rolls.

It's clear from you posts that $$ isn't a primary consideration. Just get some Ilford or Kodak and have at it---you won't be disappointed as those are the standards which every other manufacturer is compared to.

GKC said:

It's clear from you posts that $$ isn't a primary consideration. Just get some Ilford or Kodak and have at it---you won't be disappointed as those are the standards which every other manufacturer is compared to.

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Yeah, that. Or Fuji Acros if you plan to shoot long exposures in low light and reciprocity failure is a factor, though TMY-2 is excellent in that regard too and a couple of stops faster to begin with so exposures would have to get really long for the Acros to be shorter. Still you don't even have to bother calculating it with Acros out to two minutes, just meter and shoot.

Hi, Mark;

my congratulation to your Graflex 4x5 camera. I have got one last April and since then a lot of fun and good pictures. Above that I am concenient to have a Laborator 138 C to easily enlarge the negatives myself.

Your question: Which film? - Kodak TMax and Ilford Delta 100 are exhilarating films with superfine grain and all good behaviors. - As long as your are simply practizing the handling of the camera and the developing process rather stick to one of the budget films, e.g. Foma or similar.

For hand-held photo - during the Cologne Photokina 2014 - I used an Ilford HP5+ on 800 ASA and developed it in Perceptol, 1+3, whatever 28-30 mins and 21°C. The results are very good indeed - and still fine grain. It is easy to enlarge those on 20x24" size!


Have lots of fun with your Graflex!!

Jan-Peter

I would suggest starting out with a readily available, medium speed film like Ilford FP4 or Delta 100.

Id suggest the medium speed films such as Ilford FP4+ which is great, AristaEdu/Foma 200 (shooting it at 100) as well. Playing with paper and and ortho litho film ($11 for 50 sheets) is really cheap too which can practice loading, unloading, camera movements and development without worrying to much. Just make sure you get the ones cut for film holders.

djdister said:

I would suggest starting out with a readily available, medium speed film like Ilford FP4 or Delta 100.

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Camera should be here today. I got a box of ilford delta 100 because my local camera shop had it.

Good choice!

markd514 said:

Camera should be here today. I got a box of ilford delta 100 because my local camera shop had it.

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Fine film.

A local camera shop that carries sheet film? Wow. You must live on another planet.

Roger Cole said:

Fine film.

A local camera shop that carries sheet film? Wow. You must live on another planet.

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Mine has all the way to 8x10 but I live in the fourth largest city in the usa


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heespharm said:

Mine has all the way to 8x10 but I live in the fourth largest city in the usa

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Brooklyn?

I live outside Atlanta - supposedly there's one camera store inside the I-285 perimeter that carries film and darkroom stuff but I looked up the address, plugged it into my GPS and wound up in an industrial park with no retail anywhere to be seen. Then I gave up. Frankly I'd rather order any time I want from my computer and have Santa's magic brown sleigh bring my stuff two days later than try to find time to drive to a store, especially one located what we call ITP (Inside The Perimeter, that being I-285) which, on my personal map, basically says "here be dragons."

Rick A said:

If you are just starting out, I recommend cutting paper negatives to learn with. Photo paper can be cut in a darkened room under safe light, loaded and processed same, until you are comfortable with the process.

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Robert Ley said:

Mark,
As you are just starting out and have wisely started on the cheep, I would continue on the cheep and get some of the Arista Ultra 400. You will invariably make some bone headed errors, we all do when starting 4x5. When you can load your holders and make an exposure without any of the many things that can screw up a picture, then you can graduate to the high priced film. I would hate to tell you how many times I pulled the dark slide with the shutter open or took a prize winner with the dark slide in. Get your technique down before investing in better film and enjoy your new 4x5 ;-)


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great advice
i couldn't agree more !

john

heespharm said:

Mine has all the way to 8x10 but I live in the fourth largest city in the usa


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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How can we tell when you do not display your location.

Roger Cole said:

Fine film.

A local camera shop that carries sheet film? Wow. You must live on another planet.

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Ok here is the plug:
Dans Camera City in Allentown PA. An icon in the valley. I the 80's they where stocked jam packed of darkroom gear, photo paper, cibachrome, color beseler kits, roll film, sheet film. you name it. Now they have a box of color and black and white 4x5 on the shelf with a decent selection of roll film. Very knowledgeable staff...some old school. Great place.

I buy Unique photo in NJ or freestyle or adorama or b and h though because of the selection.

Horn's Photo in little old Fresno, CA (where the raisins come from) keeps 4x5 Ilford in stock.

markd514 said:

Ok here is the plug:
Dans Camera City in Allentown PA. An icon in the valley. I the 80's they where stocked jam packed of darkroom gear, photo paper, cibachrome, color beseler kits, roll film, sheet film. you name it. Now they have a box of color and black and white 4x5 on the shelf with a decent selection of roll film. Very knowledgeable staff...some old school. Great place.

I buy Unique photo in NJ or freestyle or adorama or b and h though because of the selection.

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I remember Dan's. I went to Moravian College in the 80s and that was where they sent us to buy film back then. I took photo I and photo II my freshman year, but that was all they really had if you weren't an Art major (and I was a Bio major). As I recall, it wasn't a great section of town; though most of Allentown wasn't a great section of town.

Hi

For me, it's Ilford but it's personnal. It's matter of taste. Other company are good. There is no bad choice. It depends what you do and what you expect.
HP5+ when I need more speed and FP4+ almost all the time.

Have fun