Oil for shutter?

BetterSense

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Messages
3,151
Location
North Caroli
Format
35mm
I have a synchro-compur that works perfectly straight out of a naptha bath. All speeds work and are accurate. However once the naptha evaporates overnight, it becomes sticky again. This leads me to think that it might work if I oiled it. What kind of oil is best to use for a shutter, that is resistant to gumming up? I wonder if ATF would be good.
 

brucemuir

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Messages
2,228
Location
Metro DC are
Format
Multi Format
I 've heard of using fine grade graphite mixed with the ronsinol/naphtha.
If you aren't getting into the shutter and hitting the pivot points etc I would avoid oil.
 

RPippin

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
286
Location
Staunton VA
Format
Multi Format
There is a product called "DrySlide" that you can pick up at a good bike shop. It is a molybdinum dysulfide (sp?) mixed in an alcohol base. When the alcohol evaporates the drislide is a slick, not oily, coating that is left on the parts, and is super smooth. I think the drislide is slicker than graphite and stays on longer. I've used this for years on everything from cables in bikes to old shutters with great success. If you don't like the results you can always wash it out with lighter fluid or alcohol.
 

edp

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
195
Format
Multi Format
Take everything to bits and clean it properly. Dunking a shutter in a bath of solvent does nothing (except maybe break it if it's one with rubberised paper aperture blades). If it gums up again when the solvent dries, that is because the dirt has simply moved around while it's wet and then settled in a new spot.

Take it apart (don't take the aperture blades apart, they're a nightmare to put back together, but everything else is simple as long as you don't let any springs or screws escape), clean everything, reassemble it, and put a tiny spot of very light oil on the spindles in the gear train, and nowhere else.
 

ic-racer

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
16,552
Location
USA
Format
Multi Format
Its probably not clean yet. Nothing should be on the blades or pivots.
For example here is a section of the Compur Lube Schedule:
 

richard ide

Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2005
Messages
1,217
Location
Wellington C
Format
Multi Format
Find a watchmaker and ask for a few drops of watch oil. The oil is very thin. Apply with a sharpened toothpick.
 

Leigh B

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
2,059
Location
Maryland, USA
Format
Multi Format
brucemuir said:
I 've heard of using fine grade graphite...
Click to expand...
Graphite is the worst stuff in the world. Hasn't been used for camera repair in the last 30+ years.

The standard lubricant for slow-moving applications is molybdenum disulphide, aka "moly-D". It's available as a powder or in a suspension grease.

www.micro-tools.com

The naptha bath has probably removed all of the lubricant from the escapement. Replacing it requires complete disassembly of the shutter, because many of the lubrication points aren't accessible with the escapement mounted.

- Leigh
 

John Koehrer

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,277
Location
Aurora, Il
Format
Multi Format
1) NO OIL!
2) NO GRAPHITE!
3) NO MOLY!

Your shutter gets slow again because some old lube is still in there. Dunk, work the shutter, repeat. Blow it out if you have a compressor or even an air bulb of some sort. I may take a couple of repetitions

FWIW, the Naptha will leave a very light residue and provide enough lube for your escapement.
 

Leigh B

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
2,059
Location
Maryland, USA
Format
Multi Format
John Koehrer said:
Your shutter gets slow again because some old lube is still in there.
FWIW, the Naptha will leave a very light residue and provide enough lube for your escapement.
Click to expand...
Agreed. The only solution is to disassemble the shutter and run the escapement through an ultrasonic cleaner. That gets rid of the garbage and prepares it for new lubricant.

Naptha IS NOT a lubricant, and will not serve that purpose in a shutter.

The correct application of the proper lubricants is the only permanent solution to this problem.
It needs to be done by someone with the knowledge and tools to do the job right.

As I said before, moly is the standard lubricant for slow or rubbing applications in the camera repair industry. These would be the locations marked "Lube A" in the diagram that ic-racer posted.

Perhaps you know something that professional camera repair folks don't know.

- Leigh
 
Last edited by a moderator:

domaz

Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
572
Location
Tacoma, WA
Format
Multi Format
BetterSense- are you dunking the whole shutter or just the timing gearset? You can take the timing gearset out of the Synchro-Compur pretty easily. Take out the gearset put it in a Film container with naptha filled halfway up. Shake lightly and leave it in there for a while. Then take it out and let the naptha evaporate. Now look the gearset- it should have adjustable notches for the spring tension. You can decrease the spring tension in the gearset with those notches. Also- when you actually re-install the gearset in the shutter it mounts on an adjustable post- you can move the gearset closer to the shutter to make it work faster as well. So there you go- two ways of adjustment and no oil needed.
 

John Hermanson

Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2005
Messages
306
Location
Huntington,
Format
35mm
The shutter blades have a certain amount of real estate that you never see. That is the area that probably still has oil all over it. Blades and hidden areas should be bone dry. Dribbling in some kind of lube is the worst thing to do. john
 

John Koehrer

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,277
Location
Aurora, Il
Format
Multi Format

Yeah Leigh,
I used to was a professional repair folk. Didn't get much in bounce backs either.
Especially leaf shutters.
 
OP
OP

BetterSense

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Messages
3,151
Location
North Caroli
Format
35mm
Well even after prolonged soaking, the shutter still sticks on speeds less than 100 after it dries out. This is actually a great improvement though because 100 is a very useful speed, compared to no speeds at all.
 

domaz

Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
572
Location
Tacoma, WA
Format
Multi Format
BetterSense said:
Well even after prolonged soaking, the shutter still sticks on speeds less than 100 after it dries out. This is actually a great improvement though because 100 is a very useful speed, compared to no speeds at all.
Click to expand...

It really sounds like the timing gearset is not adjusted right to me. If it's adjusted to far inward it can do that. If you move it out just a hair I bet everything works. Although you may still need to adjust timing gear spring tension using the little notches on the bottom side of the timing gearset.
 
OP
OP

BetterSense

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Messages
3,151
Location
North Caroli
Format
35mm
Sorry, I don't understand that terminology. I did take the front ring-cover off the shutter so that I can see the parts inside, but I don't know what the timing gearset looks like or how you can adjust it in or out. After the shutter sticks, if you nudge the cocking lever you can get it to shut, so it just barely sticks.
 

Ole

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Sep 9, 2002
Messages
9,245
Location
Bergen, Norway
Format
Large Format
If you really really need to lube a shutter yourself, you need a repair handbook. They can be found, and cost less than a new shutter.

But if a good cleaning doesn't help, you might as well get a new shutter - or send the non-working one to a repairman who knows what he (or she) is doing.

I have a repair handbook, I needed it to change a damaged spring in one shutter. But even with that book a proper lubrication is a daunting task, which I haven't even thought of trying yet.

One of the most common reasons for shutters sticking at low speeds is too much lube in the slow-speed escapement, by the way. It needs a little friction to work properly.
 

Ole

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Sep 9, 2002
Messages
9,245
Location
Bergen, Norway
Format
Large Format
If you really really need to lube a shutter yourself, you need a repair handbook. They can be found, and cost less than a new shutter.

But if a good cleaning doesn't help, you might as well get a new shutter - or send the non-working one to a repairman who knows what he (or she) is doing.

I have a repair handbook, I needed it to change a damaged spring in one shutter. But even with that book a proper lubrication is a daunting task, which I haven't even thought of trying yet.

One of the most common reasons for shutters sticking at low speeds is too much lube in the slow-speed escapement, by the way. It needs a little friction to work properly.
 

Paul Goutiere

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
629
Location
Canmore Ab C
Format
Multi Format
I've worked on a few Compur shutters in the last ten years. I've tried a few easy fixes, and one or two of these has worked. The easy fix was merely to soak the shutter in lighter fluid overnight, slosh it around a bit occasionally, then dry between two pieces of paper towel. This worked twice. Just so you know; it can take a day or two to dry thoroughly!!

The best job is to completely disassemble the shutter, taking the shutter blades out. (making it somehow that you put them back in the same place later preferably.) I then clean the blades individually with pure alchohol. Put the shutter back together the same way as you took it apart and make sure everything is as clean as you can make it.

The shutter blades are ferrous so they can easily become magnetized, so you may want to consider this. I use a tape head demagnetizer. I do not use lubrication on the shutter blades anywhere but I have on one occasion used a bit of soft pencil (graphite) on the pivots. Go easy on the graphite as it can work it's way to the lenses.

The other areas like the escapement mechanism I use a fine watch oil like Moebius (http://www.ofrei.com/page246.html) applied with the tip of a toothpick. The main shutter spring I use stuff called Nyoil (Dead Link Removed) applied sparingly.

I think in many cases it would be nice to have a new shutter spring but I don't know where to find such things for small shutters. I anyone has a resource I'd like to know of it.
 

Paul Goutiere

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
629
Location
Canmore Ab C
Format
Multi Format

I have used naptha, but I'm not sure if the stuff I used didn't leave some kind of waxy residue. I prefer lighter fluid and isopropyl alcohol.
 

bliorg

Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
677
Location
NW Philly, PA
Format
Large Format
Paul Goutiere said:
I have used naptha, but I'm not sure if the stuff I used didn't leave some kind of waxy residue. I prefer lighter fluid and isopropyl alcohol.
Click to expand...

FWIW, naphtha doesn't have wax in it. And Ronsonol lighter fluid is naphtha. And isopropyl alcohol absorbs moisture from the air, and consumer-available IPA contains substantial water straight out of the bottle. I wouldn't use it in a shutter. YMMV.
 

Paul Goutiere

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
629
Location
Canmore Ab C
Format
Multi Format

The naptha, I've used has a waxy residue, you may have something different. Ronsonol for whatever reason doesn't leave a residue. I have had better results, for whatever reason with lighter fluid.

Isopropyl alcohol, from the drugstore, the "pure" stuff, the stuff I can get, does not have any appreciable amount of water. Alcohol will attract water, so what? Some camera repair people actually use water and detergent to clean the mechanism. You make sure the mechanism is dry. I like to use the alcohol directly on the shutter blades, I can see the stuff dry.

If you do something different with good results, good, do it. This is how I do it also with good results.

I am only passing on what I have found works for what me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…