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Oh-Oh, be careful what you ask for ...

lilmsmaggie

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Hi,

At the last minute, I decided to add a B&W film class. And now, I need some supplies - specifically, B&W paper and film. So far, the instructor has suggested getting student starter kits from Ilford which contains two rolls of HP5. This is my first venture into B&W film.

The kit also includes 25 sheets of MGIV RC Glossy. About $25 There are other kits that Include: RC Deluxe D1M + Delta Pro 400; Pearl + HP5, and D44 Pearl + Delta Pro 44. These later run about $62

For the semester, we will need a total of 10 rolls of B&W 36 exp, and 100 sheets of paper.

If I decide not to go with a kit and buy the film (I'll most likely stick with Ilford B&W) and paper separately, which B&W paper would be the best choice given the Ilford choices ?

I have no idea what the chemistry will be -- just what I've mentioned above.

BTW - the instructor is quite demanding in terms of quality. Many of her beginning photo students are hired because of the printing skills she imparts to them.
 
I've found that some beginning students can be a tad hard on fiber paper at first, although not all, so I would suggest that you get one 100 sheet box of MGIV RC paper to start (the finish is a completely personal choice that only you can make, sorry). You may also - to save shipping costs - want to get a 25 sheet pack of fiber paper for comparison. Keep in mind that gang darkrooms can get a bit unwieldy at times (like right before an assignment is due) and even though you may be caution not to damage the corners of fiber paper, others may not be so concerned, especially in the wash.

Fiber paper can become dented, especially in the corners, with rough handling, hence the suggestion to start with RC until you have the lay of the land. If you enjoy the class you'll be getting more paper anyway, so it's a good idea to try them both so you know what to buy when you run out of paper later on. Most schools use bulk chemicals designed for institutional use (most, not all), but either way you will not have any problems with Ilford papers in any developer, just don't get graded paper to start off with, but do keep in mind as something to experiment with once you get the basics down.

Most importantly, have fun!

- Randy
 

I suggest to follow your instructor's advise and go with the kit. After you've used it once, you can deviate into other products, but Ilford is a good choice. Mixing and matching B&W products is not too difficult, but in the beginning stick to the kit.
 
I just took a class last semester, so I might be able to offer a little advice. As far as using the Ilford paper, I found that buying the 25packs with the 15 bonus sheets was the best value. I originally bought a 100 sheet box at the beginning of the semester, but for the final project I needed some more, and finally figured out that the 25+15 pack was better. I saw the starter packs from ilfrod, but they were at the school bookstore and way overpriced. If you are allowed to use something other than Ilford, I'd look at the Arista papers from Freestyle. I've used them recently for work that I have been selling, and I'm pleased with them, though I was using their FB paper, not RC. I also tried the Fotokemika FB paper, and was pleased with it. I think both the Arista and Fotokemika are available in RC, and are quite a bit cheaper. Other than that, I'd suggest getting your own negative brush and one of those air bulb blowers (not sure what they're really called) because the ones at my school would get set down on any surface, and with my own I was able to keep the brush in a case to keep from getting dust on it.

Good luck, my class was a lot of fun and I really gained a lot from having the interaction with other students and the instructors.
 
Your teacher has suggested that you purchase a kit which includes glossy paper, I would say to go along with that suggestion.

As you state the teacher is demanding regarding print quality, then the choice of glossy paper which can show as much tonal range as is possible, is a good one.

You will know very quickly along the way what paper and/or film to get as your supplies run out.

It is possible there may be the special Ilford packs which are 25 sheets + 15. These have been around in my part of the world and are the cheapest way to purchase Ilford RC paper I know of.

Mick.
 
If it was a regular night school or community college class, I would go with quality inexpensive materials so that I would feel comfortable shooting and printing a lot. Freestyle Arista Premium film (generally thought to be Tri-X) is 2.19/roll. A 100 sheet pack of Arista EDU Ultra RC paper is 33.99, so you are out the door with all the film and paper you need for $56.

HOWEVER, since this instructor sounds pretty serious (it's not Ralph Lambrecht, is it? Oh wait, you said "she"), I would do exactly what she says: get the Ilford starter pack to start with. This will help the instructor better evaluate your work, and make it easier to compare your work side by side with other students. THEN I would buy a big roll of cheap film and a big box of inexpensive paper and start shooting and printing my brains out. (I also like Oriental Seagull, a really nice inexpensive paper that Freestyle has in their catalog but not on their website)
 
with my beginner classes i recommend either tri x or hp5 as they are more forgiving.

I also like them to use glossy paper as it will show every flaw and every detail and RC as it is a good starting paper.

SInce you know you will need a specific amount of film and paper,you might check with B&H or Freestyle, Calumet, etc and see who has the best prices for a brick of film which is 10 rolls and check the prices on paper, a 100 sheet box will usually be cheaper in the long run. You might check with some of your class mates to see if they want to split a box of 250 sheets which brings the cost down even more.

i would think the chemistry would be provide. Stick with one paper type and one film type , it is easier to learn that way rather than jumping from brand to brand.

glad to hear your insturctor is demanding as you will learn much more that way.
 
Despite feeling a little bit intimidated, I think I'm really going to like this class and the instructor. I stopped by the school bookstore and checked the price of the kits and compared them to Freesryle's. I'm a little bit concerned about mail ordering photo paper this time of the year though. It's been really hot and humid in the Central Valley lately where I live. Speaking of hot and humid. What's the best means of storage?
Can I keep unused sheets in the frig with the film until I need it?
 
If its hot and humid and you store paper in frig which I do ,when you take it out of frig let it warm up to room temp. before you open it to keep condensation form forming on paper.

Mike
 
Appreciate all of the valuable feedback. I didn't have the class syllabus in from of me when I made the first two posts. After referring to it, looks like she's giving us a choice of films and papers.

The film choices are: HP5, T-Max 100, 400, Delta 400 or comparable film.

Paper choices are: Multi-grade RC Matte, Pearl or Glossy.

I'm thinking maybe HP5 and Pearl. But I'm open.
 
Central Valley in CA? If so you should get your order the next day, if not, then the next day after that. I live on the central coast in CA, and my stuff arrives the next day as long as my order is in by noon.

In my photo class, we had to stick with iso 400 up until the final project, and I ended up using Tmax the whole time. If you have choices, then you should ask if you can just order the Arista Premium, since it's supposed to be Tri-x.
 
In terms of heat, I was considering how long it would be sitting in the mailbox before I got home to retrieve it. The box faces south so its getting southern sun all day. USPS delivers around 2 in the afternoon; the beginning of the hottest part of the day. Temps have been running in the mid to upper 90's all week with 78% or better humidity levels. It could stay this way until early to mid October. Trust me -- it will be HOT!

The paper and film will sit in that box a good hour or two before I will be able to retrieve it.

On a different note, is there a suggested way of transporting a small quantity of paper at a time?
Don't want to drag the whole box each time to class. Wouldn't big swings in temperature have some affect on the paper?
 
Having taken a photo class during which I used a community darkroom, I think it very important to get your assignments done early. There will inevitably be a substantial number of your classmates who will, for whatever reason, be printing furiously on the night before a major project is due. Working in a crowded darkroom with that much sturm und drang going on it is very difficult to concentrate; and large numbers of prints floating around in the chemistry increase the chances of prints getting damaged.
 

HP5 is the right choice. Either pearl or glossy would work. Matte doesn't show deep blacks unless mounted behind glass (lots easier to spot, though!). Also, I wouldn't worry about storage too much since you will be using the materials this semester.
 


The professor is quite specific about what she wants the students to start with. As noted:
BTW - the instructor is quite demanding in terms of quality. Many of her beginning photo students are hired because of the printing skills she imparts to them.​

I taught at the senior and graduate level as a professor. My advice is that you buy what she specifies to buy when she specifies to buy it. She is teach her processes and methodology the way students learn it the best and the fastest. Follow her lead. Later you can grow the way you choose to grow, but for now follow her lead.

Steve
 

If your mailbox is black, it will have a higher temp. than if it is galvanized (silver) which will reflect more of the rays. If your concerned, do you have a neighbor that you trust that would retrieve your mail early for a couple of days, till your package arrive?

Or, have it shipped to General Delivery at your post office and pick it up there. Talk to them first to make sure how to do this.
Or, have the shipper request a signature then the post office will leave you a note to pick up at the post office.
 
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Or have it shipped to one of these private post offices (like Mailboxes Etc) if there is one near you. They will hold the package until you pick it up. They charge for the service, though, $3-$5 depending. Maybe you have a friend or neighbor who is home all day and can take delivery?
 
Maybe your professor will accept the delivery for you .

Matt
 
I'll work something out. I may be able to get everything local. I need to check the local photography stores prices. They carry everything I need. Unfortunately, they don't have a website.
 
I found that the local stores all did student discounts, which ended up being cheaper than ordering online once you factor in the shipping costs. If your gonna buy Ilford paper and film, I'd check around because you should be able to find a place that will give you a discount to bring it to online prices without the wait. Other than that, you can't beat Freestyle's prices on the Arista stuff.
 

Arista Premium film from Freestyle (Tri-X).
Arista Private Reserve paper from Freestyle (Agfa).

And you're done.

I wouldn't get those 25 sheet kits - as you'll blow through that in no time. I'd go for a 100x5x7 pack, which is like 40$. 20x rolls of AP 400 is about 45$.

If they insist on 8x10 (which they shouldn't as enlargement size is relatively irrelevant), then you'll have to consider a cost increase there.

If I decide not to go with a kit and buy the film (I'll most likely stick with Ilford B&W) and paper separately, which B&W paper would be the best choice given the Ilford choices ?
Click to expand...

If they put a gun to your head and say Ilford only, then Ilford MGIV RC. But the paper I mentioned above is really the *deal* paper price:quality wise.

BTW - the instructor is quite demanding in terms of quality. Many of her beginning photo students are hired because of the printing skills she imparts to them.
Click to expand...

GOOD!
 
both the current "starter kits" are a good buy, in fact I bought one of each for myself just to build up my stock. if you get 2 of the 25+15 and the 25 plus 2 rolls you will have 105 sheets, in envelopes that will allow you to only take some of your paper with you at a time. Get 8 rolls of HP5 separately and you will have your list filled.

Ilford is a top grade film, and seems to be the instructors choice, so you can't go wrong. The starter kits at freestyle come in pearl and glossy for both versions. and the 40sheet packs are the same price as 25 sheets, so you would be getting 30 sheets free. Both surfaces are nice to look at and are popular. The pearl is a little easier to dry if the darkroom is set up for just air-drying. (the glossy looks best if dryed with heat.)
 
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