Oh no! Rolleiflex lens chipped?

Xax · Jun 1, 2009

Hi, I recently borrowed my Rolleiflex 2.8F to a film shoot, as a prop, now it came back and I discovered a slight dark spot on the taking lens. If I look through it when opening the shutter, it looks like as if there was some kind of oily film or something like that because the color changes a bit on its edges. It does not move though.

Unfortunately it also looks a bit like a chip, but there's no glass inside, but could it not have seperated yet?

Please have a look at both the pictures, anyone could help me on that?

Also, are there any Rolleiflex TLR specialists in New York where I could bring my camera to?

Thanks for any help! I am really desperate about my Rolleiflex

it's on the left side here

on the right here

cheers, Xax

archphoto · Jun 1, 2009

I could be blind, but I don't see anything wrong or where I should see the "bad" spot.
I had a thorough comparising with my own Planar on my 2.8F and see nothing diferent.
I am afraid you have to post a better pic of the spot that worries you and draw an arrow to it.

What's your location by the way ? Austria ?

Peter

Xax · Jun 1, 2009

I updated the pictures with arrows, it does look like a reflection only in the pictures, but in real it looks quite like chipped glass.

Yes I am based in Austria, but am travelling to NYC tomorrow!! Now I'm afraid to take the camera and shoot with it...

voceumana · Jun 1, 2009

Put on your white cotton gloves (the ones you use to handle transparencies & fine prints), and feel the surface of the lens with your finger. You will be able to feel any chip. If it is an oil spot, clean the lens.

If owned a Rolleiflex I would NEVER lend it to anyone. I had a very bad experience lending a Pentax to someone, and will now never lend any of my good equipment unless I don't care if it is destroyed.

Charlie Strack

Jeff Kubach · Jun 1, 2009

Its hard to tell, but I don't see anything wrong with it either.

Jeff

Xax · Jun 1, 2009

Hi Charlie, thanks for the advice.

I tried feeling the lens, it's feeling as it supposed to be, perfectly flat, and I also tried cleaning it, nothing will come off.

Now I am afraid that the chip is inside.

Xax · Jun 1, 2009

Maybe I'm just overly paranoid before a trip.

I'll send it for CLA and then ask the technician what it could be.

Does anyone know anyone who does Rollei service on the East Coast?

Thanks.

archphoto · Jun 1, 2009

If it is a chip inside than the entire front should show something of a bang from falling or so.
The trouble is that in order to take the front section of the lens off the entire front has to come off.
That will be the "easy' part, putting things back together is a lot more dificult, because of the linkage between shutterspeed and aperture to the lightmeter and DOF scale.
I know, because I repaired many Rolleiflex's in my time.

What you can do for now: take out your focussing screen and put it at the filmopening.
Open the shutter at B and aperture 2.8
Focus
Inspect the entire focussing screenwith a magnifying glass.

If it looks OK take the camera with you and take pic's with it.

Otherwise leave it home and wory about it untill you are back in Austria.

Sory, that's all I can do for you now.

Peter

Xax · Jun 1, 2009

Thank you so much for your suggestion Peter.

I did those steps and it does not seem like it would project onto the film, didn't even produce funny flares when pointed against a light source.

Now I can shoot a few rolls with peace at heart and try to develop one as soon as possible to see if it really does not pick up.

Incredible how this forum saved my day in an hour,

thanks again Peter, cheers Xax

dwdmguy · Jun 1, 2009

Why not shoot a quick roll with it and see what it shows if anything, you can dev the roll yourself or just a one hour photo lab. You'll know for sure if you have an issue or not.

Larry.Manuel · Jun 1, 2009

Back in the old days, it was quite common for Uber-expensive telescope lenses to have bubbles or even stones in the glass. It was with these lenses that the first 100 years of astronomical advances were made. While the appearance was jarring to purists, the flaws made no detectable deterioration in the images. Big scratches/chips, etc. were often painted out with black paint to reduce scattering of light. A famous lens maker was quoted as saying "My lenses are made to be looked through, not at."

Certainly have it repaired - if it is damaged. Meantime, it may make images as fine as before.

dpurdy · Jun 1, 2009

This guy is a well known Rollei trained repairman in New Jersey. He is also known to be very quick.

Mr. Krikor Maralian
Krimar Photo Shop
105-B (Route 4) Broadway
Elmwood Park, NJ 07407
Telephone (201) 796-0554
e-mail: Mr. Maralian prefers to be contacted by telephone.
URL: http://www.krimarphoto.com

jasonhall · Jun 1, 2009

I certainly don't know the answer to your question and I don't know how that lens is constructed, however, could it be the cement between two elements that is seperating. I had a 80mm f2.8 for a Mamyia C330 with an element much like what you describe. I assumed that it may just need to be recemented. I wouldn't think the front lens would be made that way but it is just an idea.

the second idea is if they let the camera get hot or something, it could be lubricate from the shutter migrateing onto the inside side of the element. Ask if it got left in a hot car or something by the folks you let borrow it.

Jason

Ross Chambers · Jun 2, 2009

voceumana said:
If owned a Rolleiflex I would NEVER lend it to anyone. I had a very bad experience lending a Pentax to someone, and will now never lend any of my good equipment unless I don't care if it is destroyed.

Charlie Strack

I would NEVER loan anything to a film props department, ever!

I saw too much cavalier attitude to valuable items from crews--whose priority is not your precious camera or anything--in my film days when I spent the odd day on set rather than in my usual post-production role.

Oh and if they want to use your house watch them stick gaffer tape all over the walls inside, and do Potemkin village paint jobs on the outside.

Ross

Paul Goutiere · Jun 2, 2009

jasonhall said:
however, could it be the cement between two elements that is seperating.
Jason

I think this is it. I have a lens from a Rolleiflex T with the same separation on the inner lens.

railwayman3 · Jun 2, 2009

I feel for your worries! I would never let anyone use my photo gear (other than my wife, who is a very experienced photographer and who knows how to look after expensive cameras!).

As with the other posters, I find it difficult to see what exactly is the problem from the your photos. If it is a chip to the lens inside (or even on the outside), I can't see how it could have happened without a severe blow to the camera which would surely have caused other obvious damage.

Or I wonder if there is some separation of the cement between the lens elements? I believe that this can be a factor of age (Specifically, I've read that this is a known problem with older Zeiss microscope lenses?) and therefore maybe co-incidence....or can a knock cause it, IDK?

Finally, the "oily film" theory might be a clue...perhaps some lubricant found its way onto the lens from the lens mounting or shutter, and, again, maybe a co-incidence rather than a result of the loan?

tony lockerbie · Jun 2, 2009

I would bet my bottom dollar that is lens separation, that is, the cement that holds the lens elements together has failed somewhat. This is not a chip, and wasn't caused by any miss-handling. Balsam separation is very common on German (and some Japanese) cameras from that period, and will cause no great problem in your picture taking, just be a little more conscious of flare.
You can check this by opening the camera back, setting the shutter to "B", opening the aperture and pointing the camera at a light source. If it is separation you will be hardly able to see it this way, same with the film!
I have a Tele Rollei with this problem, hard to find one without it, and it shoots just fine. Sometimes this separation spreads slowly across the lens, other times it stabilises, either way don't fret too much about it.
Tony

JRJacobs · Jun 2, 2009

Looks like separation to me also. It is unfortunately a common problem with Rollei lenses. Fortunately, it shouldn't give you much problem with your photos.

steven_e007 · Jun 3, 2009

Hi,

I know a bit about optics from my day job...

I think you need to get back to the people you lent the thing too and firstly explain that all is not well (before sending it for repair etc.) and secondly to find out if they have an explanation.

A lens isn't really that fragile - if it has received a knock or a blow sufficient to cause seperation of the lens elements then I think that might be the least of your worries! Such a blow would no doubt be substantial enough to put the lens panel well out of true. I think it unlikely if you notice no other problems.

Instead I would ask them if they attempted to clean the optic? European lenses of that vintage used a natural lens cement that is very soluble in acetone. Acetone is a killer and should NEVER be used on a camera lens. Alas, Health and Safety people like acetone as it is less toxic and less flamable than most other solvents - it has a lower flash point as it not so volatile. There is the problem, because it isn't volatile, but has a low(ish) viscosity and it is a balsam solvent, it is the perfect solution to run into a pool at the edge of the lens, creep by capillary action under the threads and seperate the elements. I'd ask them if anyone had attempted to clean the lens and if so what with...

As for examining a lens, here's a tip. Open the back and the shutter (using 'B') with the aperture wide. In a dim room shine one of those little LED torches up through the lens from the back whilst you look through the front. The coloured ones are ideal, blue being the best. A collegue showed me this quite recently. I used to use white light, but a blue LED is far superior. Examinine it carefully and you should be able to tell where the dark area is - certain if it is on the surface or lower down. Then try looking from the back with the light through the front. Looking through will always tell you more than looking at.

Let us know what you find.

Xax · Jun 9, 2009

Thanks everybody for the heap of suggestions.

I have a roll in it at the moment, which I will be able to inspect afterwards. Also, I will use the LED method to check for the dark spots.

Thanks again and I will keep this thread updated.

Oh no! Rolleiflex lens chipped?

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