Oddity on my negative - help identify?

f/stopblues · Jan 30, 2007

I scanned this 6x7 neg to check if I want to wet print it, but this strange looking annoyance came to my attention. It's the crescent-shaped white mark in the red circle. I don't think it was actually on the road!

My first thought was that the negative was pinched in that spot, but the physical surface looks perfectly in tact. Inspecting the negative, it just looks like a dense crescent in the photo. None of the surrounding negatives exhibit it.

It's HP5+ in HC110, dilution H, 12 min. @ 20 deg C, agitating first 30 sec, then 10 sec every 2 min.

Any clues? Thanks so much! Forgive the neg scan

jd callow · Jan 30, 2007

it looks like a dent/kink or broken crown.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jan 30, 2007

Yes, that looks like when a negative gets folded, and a kink appears. It's usually slightly round to the shape. Is your film completely flat where the anomaly appears?

- Thom

Charles Webb · Jan 30, 2007

This called an "oyster shell". It is caused by crimping the film while loading on a reel. It has been named that for at least 60 years, and was once a common part of the photography language. It has fallen from use by a lot of newbies. They happen quite frequently when using single weight paper and less often in double weight papers. Normally caused by improperly lifting a sheet of paper out of the developer. Can occur at any time you fail to treat
what you are doing with tender, loving care.

Charlie.....................................

Alex Bishop-Thorpe · Jan 30, 2007

I got those a lot when I first started out with black and white, my first roll was littered with them. Today I understand them to be caused by crimping the film when you load it - another one of those time honored mistakes, but they'll go away with practice soon enough.

Curt · Jan 30, 2007

Kink.

catem · Jan 30, 2007

We call them 'half moons' - it comes from forcing the film when you're winding it onto the spiral - easy to get with MF at first.

f/stopblues · Jan 30, 2007

Thanks for the response guys! I'm not exactly new at developing, but this is the first time I've seen this pop up. Looks like its reshoot time

dynachrome · Jan 30, 2007

Film Problem

I used to have this problem when I used Ilford 220 film. The base was very thin and loading a reel was considerably more difficult than with TXP-220 or PXP-220. I first tried a Paterson reel. That was a big bust. Then I tried a Brooks type reel. It looks like a stretched 35mm 36 exp. reel. This was also not perfect. Finally I got a wide spaced Nikor tank/reel set. You use more chemistry this way but loading is much easier. The only time I ran into this problem with 120 film is when I used custom spooled Kodak ImageLink HQ and FS films. The film base is very thin and the film is hard to handle. My solution is a film apron. Freestyle sells them with matching plastic tanks. This is a little old fashioned but it works.

Steve Roberts · Jan 30, 2007

f/stopblues said:
My first thought was that the negative was pinched in that spot, but the physical surface looks perfectly in tact.

Hi,

Just to stir things up a little, let's assume for the moment that f/stopblues is correct in his statement that the physical surface of the film shows no sign of a kink. If that's so, then the problem must, of course lie elsewhere.

Inspecting the scan closely, there is a double edge to the white line along the edge of the road that becomes more apparent as it approaches the bottom left hand corner. That being the case, could it be due to the white line (perhaps in reality a yellow line in the US?) having just been re-coated? Could the mysterious mark then be simply sprayed paint?

To support that theory, I can see other areas of white "mist" rather than more definite marks on the tarmac in the area of the line. Against it, the poster doesn't remember anything being there at the time. Then again, film sometimes sees things that we don't .....

Best wishes, and I hope you find the cause, whatever it is!

Steve

jstraw · Jan 30, 2007

That film was kinked...you can disturb the emulsion enought to cause that without creasing enough to see or feel kinking of the film base.

I hadn't kinked any film in years but recently, using Hewes 120 reels for the first time I kinked a couple of leaders while getting used to them.

schlitz1952 · Jan 30, 2007

Looks like glare from the truck to me.

GraemeMitchell · Jan 30, 2007

i get'em from time to time if I have trouble loading neopan b/c the base is so thin. Kodak films have a more robust base as far as I can tell, b/c I never get them with tx or px.

ricksplace · Feb 3, 2007

Kinky for sure. Could be aliens. Wrap your camera in aluminum foil.

gainer · Feb 3, 2007

The pressure that causes such a mark need not be a kink in the film, but anything that causes pressure. Some old Kodak cameras that used 616 film had a door in the back and a metal scribe with which one could inscribe something on the film through the paper backing. The inscription would appear as white in the print as the pressure caused black marking to develop on the negative.

Ronald Moravec · Feb 4, 2007

Don`t crimp the film when loading to developing reel.

Oyster shell is a problem with prints coming off ferrotype plates or not.

Roger Hicks · Feb 4, 2007

gainer said:
The pressure that causes such a mark need not be a kink in the film, but anything that causes pressure. Some old Kodak cameras that used 616 film had a door in the back and a metal scribe with which one could inscribe something on the film through the paper backing. The inscription would appear as white in the print as the pressure caused black marking to develop on the negative.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't pressure, but a carbon backing on the film backing paper that was removed with the stylus. But I could be wrong.

Cheers,

R.

BrianShaw · Feb 4, 2007

f/stopblues said:
Looks like its reshoot time

Lokks like the classic (well, nearly classic) half-moon from a reel loading kink. But I'd agree with your above quoted sentence too! Hope you have better luck with the re-shoot!

Oddity on my negative - help identify?

f/stopblues

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jd callow

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Thomas Bertilsson

Charles Webb

Alex Bishop-Thorpe

Curt

catem

f/stopblues

dynachrome

Steve Roberts

jstraw

schlitz1952

GraemeMitchell

ricksplace

gainer

Ronald Moravec

Roger Hicks

BrianShaw

Oddity on my negative - help identify?

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