Odd Problem with Arista Premium 400 B&W Film

gone · Jan 13, 2014

I buy Arista Premium 35mm B&W film as it's cheaper than Tri-X, but I'm having some problems recently w/ it. I use the same developer as I always do, the same fixer, the same water and agitation scheme, but lately the negs are turning out thin and the edge markings are not that strong, even though I've been overdeveloping by at least a minute since getting this issue. Some of the film was bought from a forum member, but I seem to have the same issues w/ film bought from Freestyle. Anyone else having any issues w/ this film? All I can do at this point is buy some Tri-X and see if the problem persists. Could improper film storage or a sub optimal batch account for this?

clayne · Jan 13, 2014

Never had a problem with the stuff regardless of expiration, batch, EI, etc. it goes without saying but verified your developer?

ntenny · Jan 13, 2014

Have you checked the batch of developer with a different film, and/or a clip test? Faint edge markings makes me think of exhausted developer first. And if you've got a different known-good developer, you could run a test roll of the problematic film in that developer.

Improper storage would more likely cause fog than thinness, and TX seems to be fairly robust in that regard anyway. I suppose a bad batch of film is always a possibility, but I'd look to the developer first.

-NT

timor · Jan 13, 2014

Yes, what developer are you using ? It looks, like here is the problem.

Chris Douglas · Jan 13, 2014

Did you check your light meter battery?

Thomas Bertilsson · Jan 13, 2014

Improper storage would lead to more base fog. If anything your negs would end up denser.

Shoot a different film using the sunny 16 rule on a bright sunny day. Develop with the same developer.

If you still get thin negatives, at least we know it isn't the film or the light meter (since you're not using a meter).

It could be either the developer or the shutter of the camera.

presspass · Jan 13, 2014

If the edge markings are faint, it's probably the developer. The camera shutter would not affect this.

clayne · Jan 14, 2014

Chris Douglas said:
Did you check your light meter battery?

Edge markers are exposed at the factory - camera has no pragmatic effect.

gone · Jan 14, 2014

The developer is my usual, D76, and it's fresh. I had this problem w/ Rodinal on this film recently, so I mixed everything up fresh. Developer, fixer, etc. The negs are exposed properly (wouldn't affect the edge markings anyway). I have some HP5, so I'll try a roll of that and see what happens. The negs look fine, they're just thin and have those light edge markings.

markbarendt · Jan 14, 2014

How's the weather where you are?

That's a somewhat serious question actually. I'm asking if the temperature of you D76 floating with maybe cooler ambient temps in the darkroom?

Rick A · Jan 14, 2014

How are you controlling dev temp? Is your thermometer accurate? Sounds to me it's not a spent developer, but cold developer, and no time compensation for it.

gone · Jan 14, 2014

It's been pretty cold, but it's back to 70 degrees today.

Which does bring up an interesting point. I got a sudden fever a few days ago and had nothing to ck my temp with, so I used one of the new thermometers that I had purchased from Freestyl (slipped into a thin baggie of course). Yikes, it read 104 degrees! Later I found the cheapie digital thermometer that we keep for the cat (back in a baggie) and it read 101.5 degrees. This morning I pulled my developing stuff out of it's lair under the sink and sure enough 2 of my thermometers read 70 degrees while this one problem one read 73. First time I've had one of those glass thermometers that was off.

I'm shooting a roll of HP5 now and will develop it soon, but I don't think the problem is w/ that thermometer, as I had used that one for only 40 seconds in the stop bath. The other 2 accurate thermometers were used w/ the developer and the fixer. I am 99% sure of what I'll find now though thanks to clayne's comment. I knew that this Arista Premium was "factory second" Tri-X that Kodak sold to Freestyle at a discount due to it not meeting their QC standards. I am almost sure that this batch was made on somewhat thinner film base w/ fainter edge markings from the factory. Back to the Yellow Box.

Rick A · Jan 14, 2014

I have shot quite a few rolls of the Arista Premium, never had it do what is claimed. The only time I had any issues was my old thermometer being a couple of degrees off, and short timed the development.

clayne · Jan 14, 2014

First time I've had one of those glass thermometers that was off.

Find a Kodak Process Thermometer. Sure, they're mercury, but they're very accurate, respond quickly (mercury), and use the perfect range for film/paper development. They also have a metal frame to prevent breakage. I use mine for everything photography related and it has never let me down.

polyglot · Jan 14, 2014

You say you'd used a thermometer in developer AND in fixer. Getting a couple of drops of the latter into the former, e.g. on a thermometer stem (or any other means, e.g. a couple of drops falling from a lid), will reduce its activity greatly. Ignore your fixer temp as long as it's within about 5C of the developer and you fix for long enough.

Rick A · Jan 14, 2014

I use a Kodak process thermometer to check my dial face units for consistancy, and accuracy. Polyglot is very correct, it takes VERY LITTLE fixer to diminish or even kill developer activity.

clayne · Jan 14, 2014

Does anyone have any evidence that a small amount of fixer actually kills developer? Not that I regularly mix up my chemicals, but I'm not sure I quite believe that a small amount of sodium thiosulfate or ammonium thiosulfate is going to kill a developer. If anything I'd expect the small amount of fixer to basically be killed in the developer. At most I'd expect pH modification and any issues to be a result of that.

However, aside from all that, I believe the OP's problem is a developer/processing issue.

gone · Jan 16, 2014

I've developed one roll of HP5 and a roll of Tri-X since posting this. They all turned out w/ deep edge markings and the negs were thicker than the Arista. I think the base was just thinner on the Arista Premium batch I have and the factory put weaker edge markings on it. It's a good excuse to buy from Kodak from now on. I like their yellow boxes anyway.

timor · Jan 17, 2014

momus said:
I've developed one roll of HP5 and a roll of Tri-X since posting this. They all turned out w/ deep edge markings and the negs were thicker than the Arista. I think the base was just thinner on the Arista Premium batch I have and the factory put weaker edge markings on it.

What do you mean by "thicker negatives" ?

Thomas Bertilsson · Jan 17, 2014

momus said:
I've developed one roll of HP5 and a roll of Tri-X since posting this. They all turned out w/ deep edge markings and the negs were thicker than the Arista. I think the base was just thinner on the Arista Premium batch I have and the factory put weaker edge markings on it. It's a good excuse to buy from Kodak from now on. I like their yellow boxes anyway.

Since Arista Premium 400 is Tri-X, it's highly unlikely that you'd find this to be a film discrepancy.
I've used AP400 alongside regular Tri-X, develop them in the same tank even, and there is zero difference.

But, as long as you have a solution that works, then I'm glad.

Rick A · Jan 17, 2014

momus said:
The developer is my usual, D76, and it's fresh. I had this problem w/ Rodinal on this film recently, so I mixed everything up fresh. Developer, fixer, etc. The negs are exposed properly (wouldn't affect the edge markings anyway). I have some HP5, so I'll try a roll of that and see what happens. The negs look fine, they're just thin and have those light edge markings.

Have you tried the Arista in the fresh developer too? Sounds like the contaminated developer theory may be the answer. Rinsing the thermommeter between chems, or better yet, seperate thermometers for each chem, would be a good habit to get into.

gone · Jan 18, 2014

Thanks everyone. It's 100% the film. I used fresh D76 developer w/ the Arista, the HP5, and a roll of Tri-X I just bought. Only the Arista Premium comes out thin and w/ weak edge markings. The Arista came out this way w/ Rodinal and Acufine too (both were mixed fresh). This Tri-X I developed today is totally like it's supposed to be. Sorta purple even after 40 minutes of washing, and so curly I had trouble getting it into the neg sleeves, all just like you would expect. I made some prints from the problem Arista film and it prints pretty OK. It just has a too-thin base from the factory. What had me second guessing things were those weak edge markings, but there's nothing wrong w/ my development, it's this batch of film.

From now on it's Tri-X all the way. I had years of good, consistent results from this Arista Premium film, so I got my use out of it.

Odd Problem with Arista Premium 400 B&W Film

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