Obtaining pyro developers in Turkey

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

I found 50 grams of pyrogallol is 55 dollars with 6 weeks waiting time in istanbul.
I found at china, 1000 grams of pyrogallol is 1 dollars which comes in 50 grams aluminum packages .
I know pyrogallol is poison but is there any more risks I should know ?

 

[pentaxuser]

I found 50 grams of pyrogallol is 55 dollars with 6 weeks waiting time in istanbul.
I found at china, 1000 grams of pyrogallol is 1 dollars which comes in 50 grams aluminum packages .

I know stuff from China is cheaper generally but about 500 times cheaper This Chinese stuff works out at 0.1 cents per gramme

I got the impression from your other thread on alternatives to pyro that it was difficult to obtain in Istanbul but perhaps not now based on this new thread ?

pentaxuser

 

[koraks]

1000 grams of pyrogallol is 1 dollars

No, it isn't. You'll find out as soon as you ask for a quote and proceed to order it. Try it out.

Having said that, there's no reason to expect Chinese pyrogallol is of any lesser quality than what you'd buy on the European market. For one thing, much if not all that's being sold on the European and American markets might be China-made to begin with.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

What to test before using it in film​

Quick purity check (very important)​

Dissolve
1 g pyrogallol
100 ml distilled water

Observe:

• Solution should be almost clear → faint yellow
• Turns brown slowly (minutes)
• Immediate dark brown = oxidized / contaminated

If it passes → good for PMK / ABC / WD2D+.

 

[Yezishu]

Honestly, I am not believe good chemicals with this price...
It's true that many raw chemicals are very cheap in mainland China or India; but based on my personal experience, I think you should at least choose products that cost $5 per 100g in a black plastic bottle with the AR, Analytical Reagent mark, or for serious applications, choose Macklin products that will cost $7 per 100g, which at least come in a light-proof glass bottle. I can see someone sell 1kg with just $15, but I just rather spend a little more money than take risks.

And get some truly reliable products as a reference, such as Aladdin reagent that costs $10 per 100g or the more trustworthy Sigma Aldrich chemicals, comparing each batch of cheaper products under the assumption that they might not work($5 per 100g or less, what can I say?).

 

[koraks]

If it passes → good for PMK / ABC / WD2D+.

Don't trust AI. There are plenty of substances that will do what that 'test' is supposed to verify and you still won't know what it is.
However, as I said earlier, there's no particular reason to distrust a seller if they're selling you pyrogallol. It's not a substance that people typically use for fraud.

you should at least choose products that cost $3 per 100g in a black plastic bottle

Everyone knows the $1 per kg price sellers put on Alibaba etc. is a fairytale. Once you contact one of those sellers and point out the quantity you need and where it needs to be shipped, you'll generally receive either a polite denial because they will only sell per metric ton, or you receive a quote for a price that's actually much closer to the going rates in EU-based wholesale.

Ignore the $1 price; it's fake.

 

[ic-racer]

I know pyrogallol is poison but is there any more risks I should know ?

Poison; what risk would be worse?

 

[Yezishu]

Don't trust AI. There are plenty of substances that will do what that 'test' is supposed to verify and you still won't know what it is.
However, as I said earlier, there's no particular reason to distrust a seller if they're selling you pyrogallol. It's not a substance that people typically use for fraud.


Everyone knows the $1 per kg price sellers put on Alibaba etc. is a fairytale. Once you contact one of those sellers and point out the quantity you need and where it needs to be shipped, you'll generally receive either a polite denial because they will only sell per metric ton, or you receive a quote for a price that's actually much closer to the going rates in EU-based wholesale.

Ignore the $1 price; it's fake.

Yeah, The $1 price is fake. The listed price and the actual price are two different things; I just revised it because I found that the listed price of $3 is for 25g AR, while 100g of AR costs $5-6. The intra-mainland shipping is cheap. If I need this reagent, having it mailed to Shenzhen at the border would cost about $2, and then shipping to Hong Kong might cost another $5-10?
When shipping it further, for example to Istanbul, plus the safety declaration required for chemicals, I don't know how much it would cost, It must be much higher.

My way to check price: search the chemical in Macklin's english page, e.g. https://www.macklin.cn/en/search/ 13047-13-7
It says they sell 13047-13-7, or Dimezone S, 95% 25g in Stock with $5.59. This price is usually reliable with other $2~3 for domestic shipping. Other real suppliers are typically not too much cheaper then them.

 

[kozesluk]

search the chemical in Macklin's english page, e.g. https://www.macklin.cn/en/search/ 13047-13-7

Thank you so much for this! Just looking at how expensive every bloody other supplier in the UK is and then the big ones (Sigma Aldrich for example) doesn't even allow to sell you anything unless you're registered chemical business, I might give this a shot.

 

[koraks]

I might give this a shot.

Note that prices are given for EXW = Ex Works. So shipping and possibly duties, taxes and customs fees will need to be factored in. The net result is that it may not be much cheaper than e.g. this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202840489420
And if you're OK with phenidone instead of dimezone-s, this would probably be even easier: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295156832230

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

www.macklin.cn does not export hazardous materials

 

[Yezishu]

Thank you so much for this! Just looking at how expensive every bloody other supplier in the UK is and then the big ones (Sigma Aldrich for example) doesn't even allow to sell you anything unless you're registered chemical business, I might give this a shot.

But please don't forget about shipping! Macklin is reliable if you pick up the goods in Shanghai or Shenzhen, but you may have to handle it yourself if you need them in London. It's not easy for individuals to buy from Sigma Aldrich; sometimes I ask friends with professional purchasing method for share a little samples.

 

[Yezishu]

www.macklin.cn does not export hazardous materials

Macklin is just a price reference. These are big businesses that don't do this due to risk or cost, but chat with others who may do export. However, please be careful. I know someone who bought chemicals on Alibaba; the goods themselves were fine, but the seller just sent them with unmarked bottles disguised as ordinary package, clearly to evade customs inspections and shipping regulations for chemical exports or something similar. This may cause additional trouble for the recipient.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Honestly, I am not believe good chemicals with this price...
It's true that many raw chemicals are very cheap in mainland China or India;

Pyrogallol is not one of them. Here is a quote from a lab in India.

Pyrogallol, 99% CAS 87-66-1 100 gm Rs 1925.

Rs 1925 is ~21 USD.

 

[lamerko]

In Bulgaria, pyrogallol is available, but it really isn't cheap - €135 excl. VAT (+20%) for 500 grams, an unnamed brand, though supposedly of European origin. Merck's is significantly more expensive - €200 excl. VAT for 250 grams!
For comparison, 500 grams of pyrocatechin from Fluka is only €15 (excl. VAT)...

 

[Alan9940]

Having said that, there's no reason to expect Chinese pyrogallol is of any lesser quality than what you'd buy on the European market. For one thing, much if not all that's being sold on the European and American markets might be China-made to begin with.

Maybe... No experience with Chinese pyrogallol, but I can tell ya that Chinese Amidol ain't the best.

 

[koraks]

Amidol is a freak chemical. I wouldn't consider that as representative of anything.

 

[Yezishu]

The quality is hit-or-miss. Budget repackagers often lack basic testing, and manual repackaging leads to contamination or spoilage—especially for unstable agents like Amidol. Most locals(Hong Kong) prefer mainland Chinese suppliers for their reasonable price, they do have good quality, but may need to try two or three suppliers before finding the best one.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

And Chinese New Year bell ringed and alibaba requested 175 dollars for 1 kilogram pyrogallol , all ads were lies. I found someone from lithuania sells 50cc two bottles pyro cat hd for 40 dollars including shipment. Lessons learned. But even 40 dollars is huge money or me , it can wait summer time , when the things are easy.

 

[koraks]

sells 50cc two bottles pyro cat hd for 40 dollars including shipment.

Wow. That's a steep price. But maybe shipping is just really expensive.

Finol | Wolfgang Moersch Photochemie

www.moersch-photochemie.de

This is very similar (if not virtually identical) to Pyrocat HD. Maybe they're willing to ship to Turkey.

 

[lamerko]

Please keep in mind that pyrogallol and pyrocatechin (also known as catechol) are two different substances. Pyrogallol is quite expensive and fairly toxic. In contrast, pyrocatechin is significantly cheaper, less toxic, and much easier to obtain. For the Pyrocat-HD formula, you need the cheaper pyrocatechin.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Please keep in mind that pyrogallol and pyrocatechin (also known as catechol) are two different substances. Pyrogallol is quite expensive and fairly toxic. In contrast, pyrocatechin is significantly cheaper, less toxic, and much easier to obtain. For the Pyrocat-HD formula, you need the cheaper pyrocatechin.

Hello Lamerko , Hello Neighbor , I read pyrocatechin should be cheaper but in istanbul its even more expensive.

 

[Yezishu]

As Macklin requested $107 for 2.5 kg pyrogallol (99% GC) domestic, $175 for 1 kg pyrogallol to Istanbul isn't too strange. The shipping cost itself can be tens of dollars.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Tannic Acid has been used in place of Catechol in Pyrocat-HD to make a staining developer. Maybe worth exploring if Tannic Acid is easily available and cheaper than Catechol.

Gallus acid?

Any one know what Gallus acid is; Is it English? or is it still in need of translation? What effect it might have on a photographic emulsion? There are a few googhits but I didn't find definitive data... Cas#? Structure? Thanx, or should I say Thanx anyway? :confused:

www.photrio.com

I also remember reading an article by Terry Dennett that talks about a similar substitute for PMK-Pyro.

Hello Raghu and all, Thank you very much for your informative post. Can you please tell me should I replace pyrocatechin or pyrogallol in pmk or pyrocat hd , 1 to 1 with tannic acid ?


Can anyone help me to locate Terry Dennett article ?

 

[koraks]

I'm very skeptical about this substitution and especially whether it will truly give proportional stain and not just (mostly) overall discoloration of the gelatin.

I feel that if someone is to make their very first steps into compounding developers and/or experimenting with staining developers, it's just not a very good idea to point them into a highly experimental direction for which very little to no objective validation exists.