observation on camera reliability

Light Capture · Jan 17, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
My Hasselblad repairman advises against my buying the 200 and 2000 series, and that if I buy a 1000 or 1600 version it only be used to occupy a shelf for display.

There are only two people repairing 1000f and 1600f as far as I know.

Most things on 200 series can be repaired by Hasselblad but they don't have any shutters left.
I would also advise to avoid them unless you have one of the lenses that works only on focal plane bodies or need 1/2000s.

Don_ih · Jan 18, 2022

Photomultiplier said:
But from the practical point of view, it depends heavily on the effort and cost. Even for making the 80 year old shutter, they had a lot of custom made tools. Of course, prototyping sometimes involves different approaches but don't forget: They at least had the technical drawings for the
parts they made, even if they filed them from stock material.

I agree with everything you've said. I was really only talking about the possibility - i.e., I said mechanical parts can be made by a person.

Sirius Glass said:
Time to get real again. The only parts that will be remade from scratch now will be cloth shutters for Graflexes and Speed Graphics. No machine shop will make parts because the cost is too high.

At no point was I talking about making multiple copies of a part or making completed mechanisms as replacement parts. I was only talking about making a single new gear or cam or lever etc. to replace one that was too worn or broken in a single camera. You don't need to employ a machine shop for that. Scraping one camera to fix another is going to eventually trash almost every camera. You may not consider that a problem.

benjiboy · Jan 18, 2022

flavio81 said:
This is not correct. Many cameras have "simple" mechanisms because of cost-cutting concerns, and they will not necessarily be more reliable. Many times you can make a more reliable mechanism by ADDING more parts such as ball bearing races on rotating axis, etc. A camera like a Canon F-1 has many many more parts than a machine like the Nikon EM, the F-1 is much more reliable not just because of better materials, but also because it has more mechanical components like bushings and bearings to reduce friction and thus wear and thus add reliablitty.

A camera like the Exa has a shutter that is extremely simple in parts, yet it isn't the ultimate reliable machine and the precision of speeds is questionable due to the simplicity of the mechanism itself.

No, this only tells you the camera is easy to diagnose - it has nothing to do with reliablity. Again, Exa.

Electronic components in most cameras are very very reliable. It's the electric parts that require cleaning or resoldering. Just as mechanical parts require cleaning and relubing.

Yet the big elephant in the room is that mechanical components can fail with no replacement available. You would need to have a shop machine the part, and some times the shop can't do it with a material, precision and quality of finish that would make for a reliable replacement. This was under discussion lately on a camera repairmen forum.

Broken pits in ribbons -- which often are caused by a bad technician, can be overcome by jumping with wires.

I don't have any concerns Flavio about the failure of my Canon F1s , at my age I'm more worried that I will expire first.

monopix · Jan 18, 2022

RalphLambrecht said:
I am in the fortune position to own dozens of cameras. Many are mechanical ,some are electronic, some only a few years old, Some are many decades old(my oldest will be 100 next year), some frequently used, others I've been sitting on the shelf for years.
I made a few interesting observations I like to share. Keep in mind that YMMV.
1. Electronic cameras are not less reliable than mechanical cameras. This is especially true for shelf queens.
2. Reliability as little to do with a country of manufacture.
3. es, mechanical cameras can be serviced for a long time but it seems they also need to be serviced more frequently.
What is your experience?

I agree 100% and it's nearly word for word what I say if I get asked about reliability.

Sirius Glass · Jan 18, 2022

benjiboy said:
I don't have any concerns Flavio about the failure of my Canon F1s , at my age I'm more worried that I will expire first.

I would not recommend going that far. Buy another Canon F1 and stick around here longer.

ciniframe · Jan 18, 2022

All this discussion about repairing mechanical cameras has made me wonder if anyone has worked on the original Exa, the one with the mirror/drum shutter. Although there were quite a few limitations to that design, ie. low top speed and limited long focus lens use, the design itself seems fairly simple, with minimal parts.
I had one, and remember the shutter at 1/25 to be very smooth and nearly silent. Kind of sad I sold it but I had just too many cameras ( still do in fact).

flavio81 · Jan 19, 2022

Light Capture said:
More on topic. While electronic bodies are reliable I have 5 Nikon EL and FE bodies and 3 are not working. 1 of them wasn't working when I got it but they can't be really repaired easily. Parts required most of the time can't be fabricated or found anymore.

How do you reach the conclusion your cameras need new parts?

I have repaired FE cameras and when the auto system fails, it is often bad contact on the timing switches around the mirror box. In other words, an electrical problem.

The Nikon EL uses a similar system, it's just harder to disassemble.

Light Capture · Jan 19, 2022

flavio81 said:
How do you reach the conclusion your cameras need new parts?

I have repaired FE cameras and when the auto system fails, it is often bad contact on the timing switches around the mirror box. In other words, an electrical problem.

The Nikon EL uses a similar system, it's just harder to disassemble.

FE has a dead AI readout resistor.
EL's - one has mechanical speed available only (shutter timing defective) and other one's meter is off by a couple of stops.
I only looked at FE since benefits of repairing them aren't that important to me and still have two working FE's.
FE is my replacement for EL2. That is my favorite body with match needle metering when it comes to manual focus Nikons.

So far it was cheaper and much more convenient for me to get replacement than to repair it but that might change if prices keep going up.
I have few other manual Nikons so it shouldn't affect me for quite some time. Few times I opened electronic bodies of this kind it was something that wasn't repairable. Will probably have more luck next time with these spare bodies for parts.

Issues with switches are usually relatively easy to trace. Applying good contact cleaner on them gets it working most of the time. Careful application is needed so it's not sprayed where it shouldn't go.
Swab, toothpick or brush is better for targeted application. Contact cleaner also contains traces of fine light oil and it will protect contacts from oxidation for some time.

flavio81 · Jan 19, 2022

Light Capture said:
FE has a dead AI readout resistor

You mean the FRE? Damn Nikon, i hate their FREs. They can't make a reliable variable resistor. They should learn from Canon and Pentax.

But then, this is an electrical issue, not really electronic.

Light Capture said:
EL's - one has mechanical speed available only (shutter timing defective) and other one's meter is off by a couple of stops.

That is probably purely electrical. Timing relies on the timing switches and switches do corrode/get dirty and misadjust.

The meter can be recalibrated.

Bill Burk · Jan 19, 2022

I would mention that 'reliability' for me, means a mechanical camera that I can easily take apart. While reliable for general purpose recommendation would involve recommending a camera likely to work well without likely needing any repair.
That's one reason I avoid recommending electronic cameras (like Minolta XG7) although they may have been a very good choice when they were new. Ralph's original observation may have included inherently "better" and more reliable electronic cameras, (like Nikon).

observation on camera reliability

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency