Numbering film holders and recording exposure.

bobwysiwyg · Dec 24, 2009

Ralph convinced me to notch and provided that PDF 'how to' I have to say it works very well. I have confidence that I can equate a negative to not only the notes taken at the time of exposure, but also ID a particular holder if there are issues with it.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 24, 2009

mikebarger said:
I have lost track of negatives to belonging to which holder before. I like Ralph's system, but the drilling the coded holes looks easier and serves the same purpose. Probably even quicker to do.

I've notched all my Hasselbald backs years ago, time to get after the LF holders.

Mike

I think drilling holes is a good alternative to cutting notches, but I would still drill them in the same locations as the notches to maintain a binary system. The binary system ensures less notches or holes than any other numbering system. For example, holder #54 was shown in one post as drilling 9 holes (5+4), in the binary system this would require only 4 holes (32+16+4+2).

msage · Dec 24, 2009

Ektagraphic said:
BTW, does anyone have a link to that thread where we discussed wether the light or dark slide of the darkslide should be in or out? I can't find it.
Thanks.

White or silver means unexposed film. Black means exposed or empty holder.
Michael

largeformat pat · Dec 24, 2009

I number 081001,081002 and so on (08 x 10 number 01) and then the same 4 x 5 (040501) I use a label gun to place these on the dble dark. If I want anything further then I just use tape for that side. I record anything extra also in a note book, which I always loose. I tried also a laminated sheet with line and numbers printed on then laminated. I marked this with chinagraph pencil. This was handy when I had to use lots of slides with different films.
Pat

Ektagraphic · Dec 24, 2009

msage said:
White or silver means unexposed film. Black means exposed or empty holder.
Michael

I actually set mine up the other way because I was thinking that silver is a light and shiny color so the film has been hit with light. Black when the film has stayed in the dark......

RalphLambrecht · Dec 24, 2009

Ektagraphic said:
I actually set mine up the other way because I was thinking that silver is a light and shiny color so the film has been hit with light. Black when the film has stayed in the dark......

White for unexposed and black for exposed is the typical convention.

randyB · Dec 24, 2009

I too have had the problem of not knowing which film was in what holder even though the holders are numbered (1-2, 3-4, 5-6 thur 24. After studying several sheets of processed film I realised I never compose to the edges so I had room to put some type of identification along the flap edge. I made little tabs with the numbers in clear on black background and black on clear background (typed out on paper and contacted to litho film)and used double stick tape to attach them to the flap. When the flap is closed the tab is in contact with the film and is imprinted when the exposure is made. As for an exposure record I modified the sheet that Ansel Adams has in one of his books customizing it to the way I shoot (a Quark document). This has worked quite well so far. I just aquired several new holders and and will number them X1-X2, X3-X4, etc just to be different.

randyB · Dec 24, 2009

To illustrate what I'm talking about I scanned my exposure record and a couple of contacts prints.

randyB · Dec 24, 2009

I hate it when I mis-name a file. Too much EggNog.

bobwysiwyg · Dec 24, 2009

Randy,

I think I can envision what you have done with the numbering. Is there any chance you can post a pic of a flap with the number tabs installed? Pretty damn clever.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 25, 2009

randyB said:
To illustrate what I'm talking about I scanned my exposure record and a couple of contacts prints.

Randy

Looks like a good idea. Does your software allow you to make numbers with borders (see attached) so you can get away with one number instead of two? A white number with black borders can be seen on any background (I hope my simulation is illustrates that).

randyB · Dec 25, 2009

Ralph, I'm always looking for ways to refine my technique, your idea is a good one. I generated those numbers on a Mac using Quark 5.0 where I work, (a large magazine printer). I would think any Word type software would do the same and probably give you more font choices.
Bob, I'll try to snap a photo of the flap, initially I was worried about the thickness of the film tab causing the flap to be out of alignment so the dark slide wouldn't seat thereby causing a light leak but the holders that I have have a small recess on the flap so the tabs fit perfectly. I used double stick tape so I could remove them if this idea just didn't work. In my next round of refinements I will try to reduce the font size to make the tabs even smaller.

randyB · Dec 25, 2009

A couple of digiphotos showing the tabs in place in the recess of the flap.

mikebarger · Dec 25, 2009

Those are pretty slick, and with Ralph's suggestion they'd be darn near perfect!

Mike

Mike1234 · Dec 25, 2009

I like the temporary tabs better than the filing the holder edges, etc. because they're easily removed without permanent damage to the holder. I'm adopting this methodology.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 25, 2009

randyB said:
A couple of digiphotos showing the tabs in place in the recess of the flap.

Randy

How do you make sure that the tabs do not get into the way when you load film?

Dave Dawson · Dec 25, 2009

Coming back to the original question...Why do you want to number the negatives?

If you are going out and doing a shoot and you bracket +/- 1/2 stop, why do you want to know what dds it was in? The results will tell you along with your exposure notes.

After all...When you do your next shoot conditions will be completetly different. If a pro needed indexing in their 10x8 dds's they would have been there by now.

If from a result of making the perfectlly exopsed/processed neg from this excersize on EVERY occasion please let us all know how you did it? I know many proffesionals that NEVER use a light meter and know from the lighting conditions that their development time is going to be 8 minuets at the time of pressing the shutter release:confused:

Please tell me if I've missed something here?

Cheers Dave

Ektagraphic said:
Hi Guys-
I am very new to LF suff so I have a couple of questions. Is there a standardized way to number film holders or should I just go with what works for me? Should each side of the 4X5 film holder have its own number or should each holder have a number and one side is (for expample) 1A and the other side 1B? Also is there a little exposure/notebook or a printout online set up for photgraphy or is it also best to make my own. Thanks

randyB · Dec 25, 2009

Ralph, I was very concerned with that potential problem so I practiced loading some junk film in the light, kind of a trial run, I did have to slightly modify my loading technique by making sure the flap was flat against the table where I load my film, I use my right hand pinkie to hold the flap down as I slide the sheet into the grooves.

nick mulder · Dec 25, 2009

Dave Dawson said:
Coming back to the original question...Why do you want to number the negatives?

If you are going out and doing a shoot and you bracket +/- 1/2 stop, why do you want to know what dds it was in? The results will tell you along with your exposure notes.

Please tell me if I've missed something here?

Cheers Dave

Well, for one I know that after having used my holders in doors for months with no issues the day I took them outdoors and they saw a bit of direct sunlight that I had 3 light leak issues in a ten holders ...

Yeh yeh - I know - holders in direct sunlight ! what was I thinking :rolleyes: - well, I was thinking that they'd work, learned lesson: 2nd hand holders are likely enough to leak and its always worth the paper/sunlight test

bobwysiwyg · Dec 25, 2009

Dave,

Speaking only for myself, I've been shooting 35mm for a long time and LF is new to me. I wouldn't even be able to afford it if it weren't for used equipment, including holders. I had a problem with one holder in terms of a light leak, but I couldn't tell which one until after I ID them (in my case with notches and binary numbering). After numbering them and using the offending holder again, I was able to trace back to it easily. It was a hairline flex crack in the dark slide. So, that's situation where it helps.

mpirie · Dec 26, 2009

randyB said:
....contacted to litho film......

As Ralph suggests, the outlined font would stand out more clearly.

Another suggestion may be to use a laser printer and correct transparency film to print out the numbers.

This would be easier for those of us not setup for litho!

Mike

RalphLambrecht · Dec 26, 2009

Dave Dawson said:
Coming back to the original question...Why do you want to number the negatives?

If you are going out and doing a shoot and you bracket +/- 1/2 stop, why do you want to know what dds it was in? The results will tell you along with your exposure notes.

After all...When you do your next shoot conditions will be completetly different. If a pro needed indexing in their 10x8 dds's they would have been there by now.

If from a result of making the perfectlly exopsed/processed neg from this excersize on EVERY occasion please let us all know how you did it? I know many proffesionals that NEVER use a light meter and know from the lighting conditions that their development time is going to be 8 minuets at the time of pressing the shutter release:confused:

Please tell me if I've missed something here?

Cheers Dave

Dave

Numbering helps with negative and holder identification. The need for negative identification is obvious. Being able to identify the holder is a way to fix leaky holders or eliminate out-of-tolerance holders, which is a common issue. About 20% of the holders I bought, had to be repaired or scrapped. Out-of-tolerance holders are the main cause for negatives not being critically sharp.

Ruari · Jan 2, 2010

Guys, after a long absense it does my heart good to be listening to civilised talk about LF.
I have 4x5 holders awaiting processing, shot on farms in the Great South AFrican Karoo...
You give me new heart. it can be very lonely out here.
Go well, our medium is unique.
Rory

nick mulder · Jan 2, 2010

Ruari said:
Guys, after a long absense it does my heart good to be listening to civilised talk about LF.
I have 4x5 holders awaiting processing, shot on farms in the Great South AFrican Karoo...
You give me new heart. it can be very lonely out here.
Go well, our medium is unique.
Rory

The last few weeks in searching out Collodion suppliers I found three local people who shoot LF - up until this point I knew of none ... and ULF at that - very heartening

Chiron1 · Oct 24, 2010

Randy,

Thanks so much! I just finished making the tabs and now all my 4x5 Fidelity Film Holders are numbered.

See attached PDF file.

Numbering film holders and recording exposure.

bobwysiwyg

RalphLambrecht

msage

largeformat pat

Ektagraphic

RalphLambrecht

randyB

randyB

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randyB

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bobwysiwyg

RalphLambrecht

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randyB

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mikebarger

Mike1234

RalphLambrecht

Dave Dawson

randyB

nick mulder

bobwysiwyg

mpirie

RalphLambrecht

Ruari

nick mulder

Chiron1

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Numbering film holders and recording exposure.

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