Nudes

dnmilikan said:

Isn't that our mission in life - to become MASTERS of suggestion - hypnosis? Picasso once said, "The moment you lie for the sake of beauty - you are an artist."

Pretty "heady" sentiment. I would hope that my mission was something more than that...

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This could eventually migrate to a Monty Python script: "The Meaning of Life, Part II - The APUG Connection"

I really did not mean that to be a statement of exclusion - Not the *only* mission - but one of the "directions we take" in an important part of - at least to me - our lives.

I understand where Picasso was coming from - Art is not an accurate, mechanical, emotionless, 1:1 duplication of the subject (subject in the broadest of terms) but a representaion of our internal image of it. I'm reminded of Magritte's "Ceci n'est pas une pipe" - "This is Not a Pipe". - or as it is known by its formal name - "The Treachery of Images". If you were to show someone this painting and ask, "What is this?", their answer would invariably be, "A Pipe". It is not - it is a PAINTING of a pipe... but we are routinely "suggestified" - hypontized - to seeing A PIPE, and not a painting. In a way, on some level in art, we are - not really LYING - but depending on the "communication of an untruthful assumption."

Possibly another example - the photographs we carry with us on our Driver's Licenses - or other identification: cold, hard, emotionless and unforgivingly truthful images. The really accomplished Portarit Photographer will "shade" the truth - not a whole, flat out lie, but something that will, "hypnotically" alter our perceptions of the subject - for the "sake of beauty".

We can make a truthful image of a bridge - an orthogonal three-view projection - a blueprint - that truthfully describes the bridge dimensionally and we can expand our knowledge of the bridge with details and bills of materials. Truth, but that doesn't connect with our internal perception of the bridge - its "bridgeness" in its environment.

Speaking of bridges, I remember a *wonderful* photgraph by Brassai - a bridge in Paris - in the mists, at night, with illumination from haloed street lamps across its span - a long time exposure. Wonderful "mood" - it hyponitized the hell out of me. I could "feel" the fog, the stillness... hear the water flowing beneath it .... all "untruths" ...

...But essential to us as human beings. I don't think we could possibly exist and function without these day-to-day alterations of our perceptions.

Ed,
I must say that I am impressed with the breadth and depth of your knowledge of things photographic and artistic. Your use of language is equally as daunting.
I think that, for myself today, I try to keep things on a simpler plane. I follow the eastern precepts of experiencing things directly. Excluding so much as possible those ego driven constraints that do truly alter ones perceptions of reality, to which you alluded.
I don't think that I share your view that we could not function well without that aspect in place within us. Perhaps we would function better if we got the inflated view of ourselves out of the way.
Just my view...nuff said.

dnmilikan said:

I think that, for myself today, I try to keep things on a simpler plane. I follow the eastern precepts of experiencing things directly. Excluding so much as possible those ego driven constraints that do truly alter ones perceptions of reality, to which you alluded.
I don't think that I share your view that we could not function well without that aspect in place within us. Perhaps we would function better if we got the inflated view of ourselves out of the way.
Just my view...nuff said.

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I don't take it as "just your view" - to do so would be to trivialize what must be an important concept.

Was it William Blake who said something like "Most of us are trying - very hard - to see the world as it really is - and the unfortunate ones among us will succeed - and be terrified."

I by no means advocate complicated intricacy - there is a wonderful advantage in simplicity - and accepting the world, not soley by reason, but by ... I was going to write "faith" - but I think "aesthetics" is more accurate' if also clumsier.

I know what you mean by "not letting our `self' cloud our peception of the world" and WITH the phrase "as much as possible", I'll agree with the concept - but possibly, instead of "as much as possible" we could subtitute "to an inapproprite degree". Involving one's self is not invariably a bad idea - when were become one with our work we will be at our best. That involvement will *prevent* us from making Driver's License portraits.
At the same time, it is a greater error to overdo - to become so self-conscious that we lose sight of the moment.

I will confess to being a student of Gestalt Psych .. and Jung's "Man and His Symbols" is one of my favored "bathroom books".

Can we survive without "hypnotic" symbols? Possibly, but not as easily as with them. When we look into our rear view mirror, and see flashing red lights, hear a siren, and read the word "AMBULANCE" unreversed - we perceive a powerful symbol-set mandating "GET OUT OF THE WAY - FAST".
-And that is quickly and efficiently understood - without the need for conscious thought or reasoning. It is a product of our altered perception - we experience much more than flashing colored light, a noisemaker, and a bunch of letters.

Enough. Time to shake hands with Jim Beam, and gripe to my wife about this really miserable weather.

I've heard it is so bad in France that some women are running around, outside, in their unmentionables ... and I'm over here...

We perceive the world through "a glass darkly" Could this be a ground glass?

Well...if you stop down....

OK guys, back to serious stuff.

Does anyone remember Zoltan Glass? I think I remember a study of his about 1955 or so. He did b&w nudes which I remember as quite good. It was likely in one of the better photo Mags of that era.

And while I'm at it, can anyone direct me to a source for the image of "Duchamp Decending Staircase" ? The image I remember was made with multiple strobe and much resembled the subject's famous painting.

dr bob said:

Does anyone remember Zoltan Glass? I think I remember a study of his about 1955 or so. He did b&w nudes which I remember as quite good. It was likely in one of the better photo Mags of that era.

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I certainly do. Glass's works are some that fascinate me. He was the "Official" photographer for Mercedes, when forced to flee to England due to the Nazi anti-Semitism, prior to the Second World War.

What I remember most were his "Statue" photographs, done after the war, where he photographed nude models in English formal gardens, on columns, in poses duplicating those of classic Grreek and Roman statues. I don't know his procedure for rendering skin tones to be *very* close to marble (talcum powder?) but he was very successful. That was wonderful work.

A few months ago, I searched the web, everywhere I could think of, and only could find examples of his "Mercedes" photography.

If anyone could find examples of his nudes, I would be very grateful for the web site addresses.

Me To? I saw a magazine article a couple years ago wish I could remember where. I do remember it was outstanding.

dr bob said:

Does anyone remember Zoltan Glass? I think I remember a study of his about 1955 or so. He did b&w nudes which I remember as quite good. It was likely in one of the better photo Mags of that era.

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A discovery - and a problem.

While I was searching through my filing cabinets for the issue of Camera and Darkroom with the article by Stillman Clarke that contained advice that I wished I had learned early in life .. for "Lolliop78" (? -did I get that right?), I stumbled upon a forgotten issue of Popular Photograhy - June 1951. In it there are three images of Zoltan Glass's figure studies.
I have been searching the $^*%**!! web on this infernal machine for YEARS now, and all I've been able to find are images from Glass's "Speed and Spirit", cars - Mercededs, and aircraft. All that key pounding - and there were three of his figure studies right here in one of my own filing cabinets.

The problem is ... "What now?"

I will scan these... the magazine is in desperately poor physical shape, and I am going to preserve these as effectively as I can.

I *would* like to share them with those interested here on APUG ... but... I am going to abide by the Moderator's decisions regarding "copyright" status. I personally think it would be permissable to post the images here ... for "educational purposes", which are exempt; and in consideraton of the fact that copyright protection at the time these were published had a finite time limit of twenty-seven (27) years (I know it was eventually extended to double that, and then "the lifetime of the copyright holder", and then to "lifetime plus 50 years" ... where it is now, I'm not really sure) so for all intents and purposes - see "ex post facto" we sould be in the clear. Of course. there is *NO * monetrary transaction anywhere here ... not even to join or belong to, APUG.

With all that said, I'll wait until I hear.

Note that the scanned images CAN be printed ... so some sorrt of off-site snail mailing may be possible ...

Zoltan Glass was one of the "Great Lights" in my book ... and I think these images reflect some of that brilliance.

From the article, entitled "Studies in Stone":

"Zoltan Glass turns flesh into stone through the magic of his camera. The unusual pictures shown here are the work of this accomplished British photographer who uses poses and lighting to make human models look like carved marble. At first glance it is hard to tell which is statue and which is live, so cleverly has Glass blended both to create a new type of figure sudy. ..."

This guy was GOOD!!!

Check out this link - How To Photograph Beauty by Zoltan Glass.
http://www.goneglobal35.com/pinupsmisc.html

The book is listed most of the way down the page. Also search by author on www.alibris.com

Ed:
I would like to see the Glass images just to take me back to a time when things were new and fresh for me. I agree that he was a true artist and far from the pin-up makers prevailent in that era. Everyone of us should do so well.
I think the article I remember, described some of his techniques and had some images of him working with his equipment. dr bob.

Ed, let me talk it over with Sean and I will let you know asap. Personally I dont see a problem, most cases of copyright infrigement usually are based on bad faith, ie the purposeful misuse of an image. If you post the images and clearly identify them as pictures belonging to Glass as printed in PF I suppose it would be ok, but then I am not a lawyer. Give me a couple of days.

Ed, if you want to scan and`post the pics is allright as long as you include full copyright info on the post.

Jorge said:

Ed, if you want to scan and`post the pics is allright as long as you include full copyright info on the post.

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The images have been uploaded in "Non-Gallery Pictures". The only copyright information was "All Rights Reserved". I've credited Popular Photography --- best I could do.

The scans lose a LOT in transmission.

Glass was one of the few photographers I'd describe as "wonderful".

He had a sensitivty that was remarkable for a time when - let's face it - the greatest majority of photography magazines existed either for, or by necessity, as the only place where one could buy pictures of naked women.

Glass was *definitely* above that - a true artist in a sea of repressed primal urges.

I've tried to include the captions.

..

Thanks Ed, I think it was American photo that did a pictorial 5-6 years ago That was the first time I'd ever seen this work. It's exceptional, Now I'm courious to see more. Thanks for being so organised!

Thanks Ed, this is the first time I've heard of Glass. I think I'll do a little more exploring.

Thanks Ed. That created a very different emotion than I was expecting. You see, at the time of Glass’ publication, I was dating a beautiful home-town girl named Helen. The first time I saw those images, I first thought she had been the model (BION) and I was in love for sure.

After college, Helen and I went our separate ways. She went on to marry a military officer (from a “different” Academy) and I married yet a different home-town girl and we both lived happily ever….

Almost - Helen died a year ago.

Thanks again Ed.

Truly, dr bob

PBS is airing Dvorak’s “New World”, second movement. I think I’ll have a beer, go to bed, and weep a while.

"PBS is airing Dvorak’s “New World”, "

Funny you should mention that. While I was watching Shahan play his Strad, I was reminded of how modern science has no explanation for that instrument's unique sound. It occured to me wonder what other unique things will forever remain undiscovered due to the increasing reliance on computer design, which can, afterall, only rely on quantifiable variables that are programable ( ...kinda off topic, but not really).

I've been so frantic for the past few weeks that, until this morning, I haven't had a chance to keep up properly with what's been going on at APUG. This is a fascinating thread, and I thought I might as well chuck in a few words about it, for what it's worth!

Generally speaking, I find the majority of nude photography bland, uninteresting and contrived. For some reason it just fails to move me in the same way as a landscape, portrait or documentary image can.

I've lost count of the number of photographers I've heard say that they shoot nudes, but in an 'artistic' style. Photographers who make this statement often seem to think that shoe-horning their models into poses worthy of a contortionist, or closing in on details of the human form automatically elevates their photography to 'art'. I have to disagree. While many good nudes also take this approach, it doesn't automatically guarantee a successful image, by any means! Sometimes I think I'd rather be offended by a nude photograph than bored by it, but that probably goes for any subject, not just nudes.

I could ramble on, but I'm not sure I'd be adding anything new to the debate. However, I'd just like to add myself to the list of admirers of Thomas's work. While not every one of his nude images is to my taste, all of them are immaculately executed, and best of all, a significant number have a lovely humour to them which I really enjoy. The Tip Toe Torso image currently in the Gallery is a perfect example of this.

Oh, and as a postscript, I have to pick up on a comment made by Eric earlier in this thread. He said something along the lines of North Americans being less sophisticated than Europeans. Just to clarify - he possibly meant to say that North Americans are less sophisticated than MAINLAND Europeans. Here in the UK, nudity is sniggered at as if it's something that belongs only on a naughty seaside postcard, or a Carry On film!