Nova Monochrome Slot Processor; long-lived Developer

Svenedin · Oct 23, 2016

I have recently started using a Nova Monochrome slot processor. This is an unheated, 3 slot processor. I switched to the slot processor for 2 reasons. Firstly, I do not have room in the darkroom for trays to process paper above 8"x10". Secondly, I tend to print a couple of times a week for a few hours so I waste a lot of developer that goes off.

I hoped that the slot processor would considerably extend the life of my chemicals but this does not seem to be the case. In trays Ilford Multigrade goes bad in less than 24 hours. In the Nova it last 3 or 4 days (OK yes that is 3 times longer). Although the dev does not look particularly brown it starts to leave nasty brown marks on the prints especially where the Nova print pins attach (yes I cleaned the clips).

Are there any readily available developers on the market (I am in the UK) that would keep better? I only use RC paper, fixed grade and multigrade. I have tried Tetenal Eukobrom and this does seem to last better but I would like to hear what other Nova users have to say.

I did a search before posting this thread. I found a few discussions on the internet but they were not recent and referred to chemicals that are no longer available. Some people claimed they could keep Ilford Multigrade for weeks; I don't see how really. The Ilford fact sheet says working solution multigrade dev only keeps for 24 hours even in a tightly capped bottle.

MattKing · Oct 23, 2016

Liquidol was designed by Ron Mowrey (Photo Engineer on APUG) for exceptional long life.
Ansco 130 has that reputation as well.

Svenedin · Oct 23, 2016

Unfortunately neither of those is available in the UK.

MattKing · Oct 23, 2016

Ethol LPD has a similar reputation: http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/ethol-lpd-1us-gal-2356-p.asp

MattKing · Oct 23, 2016

And here is a recent APUG thread with some more suggestions - not Nova specific, but they may be helpful: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Svenedin · Oct 23, 2016

Thank you. I missed that thread!

Svenedin · Oct 23, 2016

That thread was very useful. Of all the suggestions, the one that I can get hold of easily and isn't too expensive is Polymax T. It sounds like it is long-lived as a working solution. I am going to phone Nova tomorrow and ask if they have further suggestions. If they do I will post here.

MattKing · Oct 23, 2016

Svenedin said:
That thread was very useful. Of all the suggestions, the one that I can get hold of easily and isn't too expensive is Polymax T. It sounds like it is long-lived as a working solution. I am going to phone Nova tomorrow and ask if they have further suggestions. If they do I will post here.

I'm not sure that Polymax T is going to be a solution for what you need.
It happens to be the developer I use. It's long-life properties are as an un-mixed concentrate. Once you mix it to a working strength dilution, its life is fairly typical.
Here is a link to J5 - the Kodak Alaris data sheet: http://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/prod/files/files/resources/j5.pdf

Gerald C Koch · Oct 23, 2016

Ryuji Suzuki developed his two paper developers DS-14 and DS-15 for a slot processor. They are ascorbate based. One uses metol and the other Dimezone S. One warm tone and the other neutral tone. I seem to remember him posting that they lasted for a month. The formulas should be on APUG.

bdial · Oct 23, 2016

I use Moersch Neutral in mine, it lasts nearly as long as Liquidol, which I've also used. The Moersh is a little colder in tone than Liquidol, at least to my eyes. Given that Moersch is a Continental product, I'm guessing it should be readily available to you. http://www.moersch-photochemie.de

Are you rinsing the clips after every print? The only other times I've had problems with stains near the clips is when my fixer was spent.

Svenedin · Oct 24, 2016

Yes I'm rinsing the clips with every print (I have 2 clips). Dev going bad leaves brown muck round the pins.

It isn't so much an expense issue. I don't really mind draining the dev and filling with fresh but the drain is not at the bottom of the slot. That means there is still quite a lot of liquid in there if the processor is level. I can't tip the processor to get the remaining dev out if the stop and fix sections are full. To drain those off as well means it all becomes a real pain.

klownshed · Oct 24, 2016

I have a Nova, which is heated and has a washing slot.

I haven't printed much this year but plan to do a lot more next year. I've been taking a lot more photos this year and have a stack of negatives I'd like to print.

But the last time I used it, I had the chemicals in it for well over a week with no ill effect, using all ilford chemicals/Multigrade developer.

Do you have the tubes that seal the slots? I think you need to ensure there is enough liquid in each slot that the bottom of the tube/lids is touching the liquid to ensure a good seal.

You could always use cling film to prolong the life too. You would also need to cover the cling film with some black card or similar to keep light out.

The only thing about the nova I don't like is not being able to see the image magically appear!

FujiLove · Oct 24, 2016

I use plain and heated versions of the Nova tanks for both RA4 and B&W. I've had no problems with either type of developer going off over the course of several weeks. I only have a temporary darkroom, so I think the longest it's been set up is around six weeks. After a printing session I cover the slots with the tubes so that the liquid touches them, hence there's no oxygen at the top. I top up the liquids to achieve this if necessary. I then wrap the top in cling film to keep the air out. Before printing, I drain off the the volume of chemicals depending on how much I printed in the previous session, top them up, then off I go. No problems at all.

I'm using Kodak RA4 chemicals and some cheap Fotospeed B&W paper chemicals (CD11?)

Svenedin · Oct 24, 2016

Yes I do cover the slots with the tubes but they are not an effective seal on the outer slots as these bow out slightly in the middle.

Frank53 · Oct 24, 2016

I use Ilford Multigrade chemicals in my Nova processor. Usually I print once or twice a week and keep the chemicals in it all the time. Every now and then, after 10 to 15 prints, I take out 200 or 300ml and fill it up again. That way it works for months. Once a year, in summer when I do not print much, I clean the whole processor and fill it up again when "printingseason" starts again.
Regards,
Frank

john_s · Oct 24, 2016

Gerald C Koch said:
Ryuji Suzuki developed his two paper developers DS-14 and DS-15 for a slot processor. They are ascorbate based. One uses metol and the other Dimezone S. One warm tone and the other neutral tone. I seem to remember him posting that they lasted for a month. The formulas should be on APUG.

If I remember correctly, Ryuji recommended one of these for the Nova and not the other. I can look it up if anyone is interested. The OP wanted an off the shelf developer.

In my Nova, I used to use Agfa Neutol WA (slightly warm tone with Ilford Multigrade, but very subtle), and I found it to last very well. Now I mix up Ilford ID-78, also supposedly warm tone, but also very subtle. It keeps well. I wondered if its less alkaline formulation leads to slower oxidation.

In the Nova using fibre paper (I know that the OP doesn't), the amount of topping up needed to account for developer absorption is about enough to replenish it on a long term basis if you use it enough.

RalphLambrecht · Oct 24, 2016

Svenedin said:
Unfortunately neither of those is available in the UK.

You may have to mix them yourself.

MartinP · Oct 24, 2016

I'm lucky enough to have a 16x20" heated Nova. Don't forget replenishment, and do it just before use, not afterwards. The bent cover tubes can be replaced with straight(!) plumbing tubing of 3/4" or so, which should then used on brim full slots. Clingfilm over the top of that might be an extra precaution. I use Ilford Multigrade developer which lasts a few (three or so) weeks, having use and replenishment every other evening with more at weekends. Rate of replenishment is 65ml per 16x20", better to round up than down with this volume. Replenishment is carried out with the chemical working solutions (for b+w at least).

Svenedin · Oct 24, 2016

I phoned Nova today. The chap I spoke to basically reiterated the instructions and in particular the replenishment regime. He did have one interesting suggestion which was to use "machine developer" but he then said it was only available in quantities too large for the home darkroom these days. However, Fotospeed make a machine developer called CD11 and it is available in 1 litre or 5 litre bottles (used 1+4). CD11 is designed for replenishment and it says on the Fotospeed website it is for Nova Slot processors. The only problem is I think it is for use at higher temperatures (32 C) but I need to check this. My Nova is not a heated type.

A suggestion from Nova was to do a black/white test before starting each session. Expose half of a piece of paper to bright light whilst covering the other half and then process. If no deep black then developer bad. If white is yellowish then fix bad. If pinkish blotches then stop bath bad or possibly cross contamination.

john_s · Oct 24, 2016

I used to use my Nova at a higher temperature to speed things up but I was getting some stains which I didn't get when I reverted to 20degC. This with Agfa Neutol-WA.

Barrie B. · Oct 24, 2016

Greetings from Melbourne , Australia : I use the Nova 12" x 16" four slot heater model : Just over two litres of developer , I mix up Ilford 'Bromophen ' powder developer , has a slight warm tone , which I like and it lasts for months HOWEVER I follow this routine :-
I always top-up my developer after each printing session AFTER draining off some developer depending upon how many full sheets have been processed per session. Then I top-up with fresh 1 + 3 Bromophen and float the PVC tube on top of the liquid. My nova lives in the dark & I print perhaps twice a week OR sometimes I miss about ten days . Bromophen is 'Cheap' and even thought it may ' discolor' it always works well.
After many years of ' Tray ' developing I will never not use a ' slot developer system ' .
Cheers Barrie B.

tedr1 · Oct 25, 2016

My experience with Bromophen and Ilford Warmtone paper is that the warmtone is mostly lost once the working strength developer is about 24 hours old.

There are multiple things going on with developers over time, I am not a chemist so this is not meant to be authoritative but I think there are some important principals involved.

Solution: the addition of water to the chemicals initiates reactions.

Oxidation: exposure of the liquid to the air causes chemical reactions that leads to loss of activity. Most water has air dissolved in it.

Exhaustion 1: when paper is developed there are chemical by-products released, these change the behavior of the remaining developer.

Exhaustion 2: use of the developer consumes some of the active chemical this reduces the concentration of the remaining chemical.

Replenishment: some developers are intended for replenishment by addition of a small quantity of fresh chemicals, this does not work for all developers.

The concept of the slot processor addresses the oxidation issue but not the others.

Developer is cheap, I always follow the instructions.

tedr1 · Oct 25, 2016

MattKing said:
Liquidol was designed by Ron Mowrey (Photo Engineer on APUG) for exceptional long life.
Ansco 130 has that reputation as well.

The technical data for Liquidol states that the working strength solution may be used for up to 32 hours in an open tray.

Svenedin · Oct 27, 2016

I think my short-lived Ilford multigrade issue has been solved. I went to mix up some more today, about a week since I last did any printing, and what was left in the bottle had turned dark brown. I think the concentrate must have been on its last legs and that was why the working solution did not last.

Ryuji · Dec 14, 2016

john_s said:
If I remember correctly, Ryuji recommended one of these for the Nova and not the other.

I did use DS-14 in Nova for a long time. The main problem was the inner surface of the developer slot building up something either from the oxidation products of the developing agents or something released from the paper, affecting the development action. This effect is usually not very visible to the naked eye until you try to tone the print. This gave me a major headache for some time. I just used a thin brush with a long handle to scrub inside the developer slot (with DS-14 in place) at the beginning of each session. Taking the solutions out into temporary holding vessels and then washing inside is the best but if you have to do so often, it diminishes the value of a slot processor...

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