Not enough contrast!

cbphoto · Jan 25, 2010

I have a few low contrast negs that need more contrast than my filter set can provide. Without resorting to bleaching and toning, are there any secret tricks to raise contrast via the enlarger or developer? I need about one grade higher. I am using a Leitz Valoy and LPD developer (near full strength) on Kentmere VC FB Glossy. Thanks.

zumbido · Jan 25, 2010

Duplicate the negatives with a slide copier and high-contrast lens with a contrast-enhancing filter. Duplicate those negatives with the same high-contrast lens and filter. You'll have upped your contrast and arrived back at a negative that can be properly printed (if you only do this once, your negative will be a "positive" and print "negative", of course).

I'm pretty sure I'm kidding but not positive. Or negative.

Jon Shiu · Jan 25, 2010

I find the Kentmere kind of runs out of contrast in the 3.5 to 4 range so that may be part of the problem. Also, a condenser enlarger sometimes helps to boost contrast.

Jon

Ian Grant · Jan 25, 2010

Yes use a contrast developer like ID-14, that gives another grade of contrast.

Alternately re-wash your negatives and Selenium tone in KRST 1+4 with water for an hour, the negs will definitely have better contrast

I do use more aggressive intensifiers on occasions, and some not widely written about or used (as intensifiers).

Ian

Ian Grant · Jan 25, 2010

Jon Shiu said:
I find the Kentmere kind of runs out of contrast in the 3.5 to 4 range so that may be part of the problem. Also, a condenser enlarger sometimes helps to boost contrast.

Jon

Maybe a safelight issue, the wrong safelight can act like a pre-flash and drop contrast.

Ian

cbphoto · Jan 25, 2010

Ian Grant said:
Maybe a safelight issue, the wrong safelight can act like a pre-flash and drop contrast.

Ian

My borders are bright white, so I don't think that's it.

cbphoto · Jan 25, 2010

Jon Shiu said:
I find the Kentmere kind of runs out of contrast in the 3.5 to 4 range so that may be part of the problem. Also, a condenser enlarger sometimes helps to boost contrast.

Jon

I slightly prefer Kentmere to Oriental, but haven't compared at this extreme contrast. Would the Oriental likely have the same problem?

The Valoy is a condenser

cbphoto · Jan 25, 2010

zumbido said:
Duplicate the negatives with a slide copier and high-contrast lens with a contrast-enhancing filter. Duplicate those negatives with the same high-contrast lens and filter. You'll have upped your contrast and arrived back at a negative that can be properly printed (if you only do this once, your negative will be a "positive" and print "negative", of course).

I'm pretty sure I'm kidding but not positive. Or negative.

I do have a Polaprinter...

cbphoto · Jan 25, 2010

Ian Grant said:
Yes use a contrast developer like ID-14, that gives another grade of contrast.

Alternately re-wash your negatives and Selenium tone in KRST 1+4 with water for an hour, the negs will definitely have better contrast

I do use more aggressive intensifiers on occasions, and some not widely written about or used (as intensifiers).

Ian

Is ID-14 commercially available? Haven't seen it.

I'm really afraid to do anything to the negs, but I suppose I could test it on some crappy pics from the same roll first. I guess there are no quick fixes...

zumbido · Jan 25, 2010

On a more serious note, I've been developing some prints in Diafine as it seems to allow me to vary the characteristics of the print wildly by changing the lengths of the baths. Including the contrast. This may seem counter-intuitive, since Diafine in its intended film use is pretty much one speed, one contrast. But for whatever reason (the paper chemisty, I imagine) it seems to be different on prints. A low baseline contrast if you do everything to completion, but contrast increases markedly by stepping the time in Solution A down to 15, 20, 30 seconds (depending of course on the negative). If you don't mind blowing some Diafine and paper, you could give it a try. Definitely experimental though.

Ian Grant · Jan 25, 2010

cbphoto said:
My borders are bright white, so I don't think that's it.

Borders will still be white even if the safelight has affected the contrast as the exposures only enough to alter contrast.

Pre or Post flashing doesn't fog the paper done right.

IAn

cbphoto · Jan 25, 2010

Ian Grant said:
Borders will still be white even if the safelight has affected the contrast as the exposures only enough to alter contrast.

Pre or Post flashing doesn't fog the paper done right.

IAn

Tried one in the dark - no change.

2F/2F · Jan 25, 2010

What do you have against toning them? You can add between half a grade and one grade (depending on the neg) very easily and very safely with a strong selenium toner bath.

You can also use a different print developer/developing method.

Lith printing is one thing I do sometimes to get ultra high contrast, though you may not like the qualities of the prints, and making near-identical copies is near impossible this way.

If you needed more than one grade of extra contrast, I would suggest copying.

cbphoto · Jan 25, 2010

Nothing against toning! I use selenium, but the effect is slight, as I pull it out before any major color shifting happens.

2F/2F · Jan 25, 2010

Your OP said, "...without resorting to bleaching and toning..."

RalphLambrecht · Jan 25, 2010

cbphoto said:
Is ID-14 commercially available? Haven't seen it.

I'm really afraid to do anything to the negs, but I suppose I could test it on some crappy pics from the same roll first. I guess there are no quick fixes...

I agree with 2F/2F, don't hesitate toning the negatives. It won't hurt them and can only do them some good (archival toning). However, direct sulfide toning creates more density than selenium. While selenium provides about 1/2 grade increase, sulfide can easily give you a contrast increase of a whole grade!

cbphoto · Jan 25, 2010

2F/2F said:
Your OP said, "...without resorting to bleaching and toning..."

I like to get it as close as possible before the toning stage, as I'm not experienced enough with toning to estimate the effect ahead of time. I pull the print out of the toner just as the slight greenish cast disappears and before it gets warm or purple.

2F/2F · Jan 25, 2010

cbphoto said:
I like to get it as close as possible before the toning stage, as I'm not experienced enough with toning to estimate the effect ahead of time. I pull the print out of the toner just as the slight greenish cast disappears and before it gets warm or purple.

Ah, I see. We are talking about toning the film, not the prints. It adds some contrast, and unless your selenium toner is dirty, runs no risk of damaging your film whatsoever. If anything, it will make it "better", archivally speaking.

RalphLambrecht · Jan 25, 2010

2F/2F said:
Ah, I see. We are talking about toning the film, not the prints. It adds some contrast, and unless your selenium toner is dirty, runs no risk of damaging your film whatsoever.

Before I forget, sulfide toner has the risk of being dirty. Unless mixed fresh, it should be filtered before toning negatives. It's worth the effort, because the contrast increase is about double compared with selenium.

2F/2F · Jan 25, 2010

Good to know. I have never used it.

Can either of these toners be used with any notable effect after using chromium intensifier?

cbphoto · Jan 25, 2010

Is there a danger of losing detail in parts of the neg that are already very dense using selenium? This particular neg is low contrast, but there is a bright window in it. Is it advisable to tone selectively in this case, or should I use a lower dilution?

I'm going to do a bit of reading about this before I try it, but if you can get me started...

RalphLambrecht · Jan 26, 2010

cbphoto said:
Is there a danger of losing detail in parts of the neg that are already very dense using selenium? This particular neg is low contrast, but there is a bright window in it. Is it advisable to tone selectively in this case, or should I use a lower dilution?

I'm going to do a bit of reading about this before I try it, but if you can get me started...

You will not lose detail in a high-density area (not really a low-density neg is it). All you will have to do is burn the window in. No big deal.

Ian Grant · Jan 26, 2010

My trick is to use Ilford IT-8 (print) toner as an intensifier for negatives, as it uses a Bichromate bleach normally used as an intensifier as well as a Pyrocatechin redeveloper you get the chromium stain as well as the Pyro stain and this gives well over a grade increase in contrast probably more like 2 grades.

Ilford ID-14 & IT-8 are published formulae and not commercially available.

Ian

Willie Jan · Jan 26, 2010

cbphoto said:
I have a few low contrast negs that need more contrast than my filter set can provide. Without resorting to bleaching and toning, are there any secret tricks to raise contrast via the enlarger or developer? I need about one grade higher. I am using a Leitz Valoy and LPD developer (near full strength) on Kentmere VC FB Glossy. Thanks.

I used kentmere a lot, but after testing adox paper i found out that kentmere 3 is adox 2. So you will gain 1 with using a different paper.

Besides that >3 for kentmere did not work for me also to increase contrast. Looks like it drops dead above that.

What also can help is to make your developer stronger.

Shangheye · Jan 26, 2010

Why not under expose a little and then develop for longer (or use stronger developer). Without seeing the neg, very hard to tell whether that would help. If the whole film is low contrast then dealing with it at the film level makes sense (eg selenium etc). Rgds, K

Not enough contrast!

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