Not a question for camera enthusiasts, but for those into it for art

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 15, 2015

eddie said:
I know what you're saying, Michael, and I agree. But in terms of the OP, the truth in the statement places equipment farther down (in importance) to other items, such as vision, creativity, and dedication. I think that's all that Thomas was saying in his original post.

And you'd be correct.

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Ian Leake · Nov 15, 2015

Ken Nadvornick said:
Let's say a photograph you created failed miserably. Happens to all of us. Would it really matter whether it failed due to a lack of intellectual execution? Or failed due to a lack of hardware execution? Either way you walk away empty-handed. And with some remedial action required on the next attempt.

Would there be any redeeming qualities or reasons to prefer failure by one factor instead of by the other?

Ken

Interesting question, and I think there is a difference.

If I fail due to a technical error then that's frustrating, but ultimately it's just one of those things that happens from time to time. If I repeatedly fail because of the same technical error then I try to take away the root cause of the error (learn a news skill, change a bit of equipment, change a routine, etc.). But again it's largely just one of those things that happens.

For me, failures only get really interesting when they are failures of vision or creativity. If a picture is boring then I want to know why. If a composition sucks, then I want to do something differently next time. Or best of all, sometimes a 'failure' actually reveals a new path to explore. For me these are all much more important failures than mere technical mess-ups.

I prefer the creative failures because they mean I'm exploring new things.

removed account4 · Nov 15, 2015

the red shoes or silver skates HAVE made a difference in some people's lives, unfortunately they are fairy tales.
... there are photographic fairy tales too, they are the ones people believe when they drink the kool aid that somehow xyz camera
or lens have some sort of mystical creative powers and the person using these products just needs to point and shoot
and somehow just mentioning some sort of german or japanese or english or american name of the manufacturer will make everything perfect.
if people really believe that it just takes a camera to be creative the advertisers have done a great job !

its easy to blame diminished or lack of creativity on gear and a lot harder to come to the realization that it had nothing to do with the equipment used.

Photo Engineer · Nov 15, 2015

There is no magic bullet in cameras, nor is there one in processing!

DannL. · Nov 15, 2015

Photo Engineer said:
There is no magic bullet in cameras, nor is there one in processing!

Ah, my friend . . . . how wrong your are.

http://kurtmunger.com/kodak_brownie_hawkeyeid149.html

The best things in life were made by Kodak.

Sirius Glass · Nov 15, 2015

Photo Engineer said:
There is no magic bullet in cameras, nor is there one in processing!

DannL. said:
Ah, my friend . . . . how wrong your are.

http://kurtmunger.com/kodak_brownie_hawkeyeid149.html

The best things in life were made by Kodak.

ROTFLMAOWBMHATW!!!

Photo Engineer · Nov 15, 2015

As a joke it is funny, but seriously it falls short.

PE

Sirius Glass · Nov 15, 2015

DannL. · Nov 15, 2015

No tongue-in-cheek here. It only took me ten years to find the silver bullet. And when I found it, twasn't made of silver . . . it was made of Bakelite. Who would have thought? So now I feel this urge to put in a plug for it, each time opportunity arises. Of course, on the processing side Kodak has always held first place.

Ian Grant · Nov 16, 2015

Photo Engineer said:
There is no magic bullet in cameras, nor is there one in processing!

Using the analogy of bullets a sniper relies on craft and skills honed by practice.

As photographers mastery of craft is the closest we have to a magic bullet.

Ian

removed account4 · Nov 16, 2015

Ian Grant said:
Using the analogy of bullets a sniper relies on craft and skills honed by practice.

As photographers mastery of craft is the closest we have to a magic bullet.

Ian

i agree ian
but people put camera's importance
before mastering a craft, thinking that
is the skeleton key, when it is just a plain old key

Ken Nadvornick · Nov 23, 2015

Ken Nadvornick said:
I also believe that the tools one uses to create something directly affect the essence of that creation.

Tools affect capability. Capability affects perception. Perception affects creativity. Creativity affects implementation. Implementation affects form. Form affects message. And message defines art.

Darko has just (there was a url link here which no longer exists) to a video where David Byrne (Talking Heads) discusses the effect of tools on the creative process. His context is, of course, music. But in the first two minutes of the piece he pretty much nails the above concept in general.

Ken

Ian Leake · Nov 23, 2015

My take on it is that Byrne was saying that the technology we choose to use often tends to lead us in a particular direction, and that we should be aware of this because it may or may not be right for what we're making. This makes a great deal of sense.

What I found really thought provoking were his comments about how perhaps we should pay as much attention to how our audience wishes to engage with what we make, as we do to the technologies we use to make it.

removed account4 · Nov 24, 2015

Ian Leake said:
My take on it is that Byrne was saying that the technology we choose to use often tends to lead us in a particular direction, and that we should be aware of this because it may or may not be right for what we're making. This makes a great deal of sense.

What I found really thought provoking were his comments about how perhaps we should pay as much attention to how our audience wishes to engage with what we make, as we do to the technologies we use to make it.

exactly !

DREW WILEY · Nov 24, 2015

What counts is the food but not the ingredients or technique??????????????????? Hope some of you never try to make a living opening a
restaurant!

Ian Grant · Nov 24, 2015

DREW WILEY said:
What counts is the food but not the ingredients or technique??????????????????? Hope some of you never try to make a living opening a restaurant!

My wife thinks I should open a restaurant, she's not the only one, but I'd find it boring and it's not where my talents lie While I enjoy cooking and particularly for many people my craft in that area isn't honed enough for multiple dishes.

The analogy of food is good though it's about making the most with what you have available. That's why our most important tool in analog photography is craft, it's as difficult as you want to make it but with the right steps it's fairly simple.

Ian

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 24, 2015

I think food is an interesting comparison, because your food is more of a variable. I would equate the camera more to the pots, pans, tools, ovens, and other types of tools in the kitchen.

To me food is raw material, and the meal is the finished product. Skill goes into preparing those meals, using the available tools in the kitchen. The produce and ingredients are more like film, chemistry, and paper.

Anyway. If you all find it beneficial to continue discussing, please do so. I'm bowing out. Thanks to all who contributed their knowledge, insight, experience, and skill. I appreciate it.

Not a question for camera enthusiasts, but for those into it for art

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