Norma needs better head and legs

Woodhead · Mar 12, 2016

Three months into owning a clean and lovely Norma Expert kit I'm looking to improve my tripod and head. So far have been chugging away on Manfrotto 55 with 405 (geared) as its all I've got. However I find there is play on all three axis, especially with longer lenses and more rail. The simple action of inserting film makes the rig move a little.

I'm looking around for a Sinar pan tilt head but no luck finding one. I wonder what your opinions on this head are, or if I'm missing out equally suitable but easier to source alternatives? And as for legs any suggestions of suitable models from any manufacturer would be greatly appreciated. My previous LF was a Speed Graphic which was easy on this lightweight tripod, not so the monorail.

Jim Noel · Mar 12, 2016

Another good head for the Norma is a Baco, either the 2 way or 3 way. more sturdy than than the Sinar.

shutterfinger · Mar 12, 2016

Berlebach Report with leveling base. https://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=details&id=289&sprache=english
As solid as Gibraltar.

Woodhead · Mar 13, 2016

Thank you for your help, added those to the shortlist.

Does anyone have experience of the Gitzo 3 way low profile? Current model is G1570M I think, but there are older versions of the same design readily available.

Sirius Glass · Mar 13, 2016

I found that the Induro carbon fiber tripods and heads are almost as good as the Gitzo and Manfrotto products for a lot less money. http://www.indurogear.com/

shutterfinger · Mar 13, 2016

When I bought my Report it had a standard column. I used it with a low profile Gitzo head, which if not worn out is a good stable head. I added a short column and a Sunway Photo leveling base Dead Link Removed .
Upon mounting my Cambo Legend I noticed an increase in both stability and ease of adjustment. The 15° tilt of the leveling base is adequate movement for a view camera, no additional head is needed. As the Gitzo wears the clamp handles have to be tightened more to prevent drift. I have a worn one.

Woodhead · Mar 14, 2016

Thanks Shutterfinger, that's really useful experience.

TheFlyingCamera · Mar 14, 2016

Woodhead said:
Thank you for your help, added those to the shortlist.

Does anyone have experience of the Gitzo 3 way low profile? Current model is G1570M I think, but there are older versions of the same design readily available.

I've got the Gitzo 1570 head, and it's more than adequate for your Norma - I use it on a set of Gitzo 1420(or 25? I don't remember) legs for my 14x17 field camera. The Sinar pan-tilt head, while hard to come by, is worth the wait. It's basically a perfect fit for the Norma and the later F/C/P series cameras. And the good thing is should it need to be worked on, it's actually very easy to service - I took mine apart, cleaned and re-lubricated it and now it locks down tight and moves smoothly when loosened.

Alan Gales · Mar 14, 2016

I used a Sinar P on my Ries A100 with Ries double tilt head. I had to crank the camera down really tight or it wanted to spin on the head. I guess I could have glued a piece of rubber to the tripod head plate. The Sinar heads have a pin on them to prevent this from happening. I have never handled one but people who own them rave about using the Sinar head with a Sinar camera.

They do show up on Ebay from time to time.

Your best bet may be to advertise in Large Format Photography Forum's for sale section that you are looking for one. You do have to be member there for 30 days in order to access that section.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/

Good luck to you!

Alan Gales · Mar 14, 2016

Ooooops! I originally said 90 days to access the for sale section. I meant 30 days and I have corrected it.

Woodhead · Mar 14, 2016

Thanks Alan, I'll join that forum too. Have posted a WTB on APUG as well just in case.

Having read further around the subject I'll continue to hunt for Sinar pan tilt before any other.

Woodhead · Mar 14, 2016

TheFlyingCamera said:
I've got the Gitzo 1570 head, and it's more than adequate for your Norma - I use it on a set of Gitzo 1420(or 25? I don't remember) legs for my 14x17 field camera. The Sinar pan-tilt head, while hard to come by, is worth the wait. It's basically a perfect fit for the Norma and the later F/C/P series cameras. And the good thing is should it need to be worked on, it's actually very easy to service - I took mine apart, cleaned and re-lubricated it and now it locks down tight and moves smoothly when loosened.

Thanks for your advice, great to have your experience.

Nokton48 · Mar 14, 2016

Woodhead said:
Three months into owning a clean and lovely Norma Expert kit I'm looking to improve my tripod and head. So far have been chugging away on Manfrotto 55 with 405 (geared) as its all I've got. However I find there is play on all three axis, especially with longer lenses and more rail. The simple action of inserting film makes the rig move a little. I'm looking around for a Sinar pan tilt head but no luck finding one. I wonder what your opinions on this head are

I have two 4x5 Normas, also a 5x7 and 8x10. I would find a nice clean Norma Pan/Tilt Head. Why?? Because it was designed IMO to be an integral part of the camera. If you like your Norma, keep it all Norma. I have four or five of these heads in my studio, they can be had cheaply if you are patient.

Legs are another issue. I like Manfrotto & FOBA. The FOBA C40 was the original Norma tripod.

benjiboy · Mar 14, 2016

My wife's name isn't Norma, but she could also do with "a better head and legs"

DREW WILEY · Mar 17, 2016

I routinely shoot a Norma at long extensions. No need for a tripod head. None at all. You can quickly adjust tripod legs, then if necessary do final
tweaks with the the rail holder itself. Totally secure. No wobble. Works for both my Ries wooden tripods and various carbon fiber units. But if you do
feel the need for something intermediate, especially shooting straight down, go with that Sinar/Norma pan/tilt option.

Woodhead · Mar 17, 2016

DREW WILEY said:
I routinely shoot a Norma at long extensions. No need for a tripod head. None at all. You can quickly adjust tripod legs, then if necessary do final
tweaks with the the rail holder itself. Totally secure. No wobble. Works for both my Ries wooden tripods and various carbon fiber units. But if you do
feel the need for something intermediate, especially shooting straight down, go with that Sinar/Norma pan/tilt option.

Thanks for the insight Drew, I've just had a try of your method and I see what you mean. Surprisingly easy to achieve a level horizon by rotating the rail then retightening the rail clamp. Panning is simply a turn of the tripod's centre column. It would seem it's only tilts past about 10º that need a head.

I am looking out for one, and have settled on it being Sinar pan/tilt over any other from all the positive recommendations.
There are actually two later era black ones on the auction site currently, but I'm gonna hold out for the matching Norma green.

DREW WILEY · Mar 17, 2016

I guess if you're a purist. Otherwise a can of Norma green paint and fake it. I'm not adverse to style. I recently machined a maple mounting block for
a big MF SLR telephoto, then deliberately mixed rust and crud into the penetrating epoxy so that it would match the weathered look on my Ries maple tripod. Some faux battle scars too.

Alan Gales · Mar 17, 2016

Drew Wiley, the shabby chic photographer!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabby_chic

DREW WILEY · Mar 17, 2016

If you want to see a masterpiece of Shabby Chic you should visit the old mission San Jose here in Calif. It burned down around the middle of the last
century. Then it was "restored". You walk in there feeling the place is going to collapse on you. The wooden beams overhead are rotten. Water stains
run down all over the walls and murals; everything is discolored with mildew and mold. ... Actually, the roof is supported with steel I-beams, then encased with wood which has been meticulously faux finished to look ancient and rotten. Same with the wall plaster etc. Fake decrepitude. Since I've consulted on quite a few restoration jobs over the years, it's really quite fascinating. Sometimes you need to be fake to be authentic.

Alan Gales · Mar 17, 2016

DREW WILEY said:
If you want to see a masterpiece of Shabby Chic you should visit the old mission San Jose here in Calif. It burned down around the middle of the last
century. Then it was "restored". You walk in there feeling the place is going to collapse on you. The wooden beams overhead are rotten. Water stains
run down all over the walls and murals; everything is discolored with mildew and mold. ... Actually, the roof is supported with steel I-beams, then encased with wood which has been meticulously faux finished to look ancient and rotten. Same with the wall plaster etc. Fake decrepitude. Since I've consulted on quite a few restoration jobs over the years, it's really quite fascinating. Sometimes you need to be fake to be authentic.

Yeah, I worked with a fellow who bought and sold antique furniture on the side. Original furniture is worth more than refinished furniture so he would buy furniture with missing or broken parts, repair or replace what was needed and then blend it all together by aging a part if necessary. He claimed he made more money on the side selling at the Antique Mall than his full time job as a Union Sheet Metal Worker. Nothing wrong with that.

DREW WILEY · Mar 17, 2016

When my nephew was learning the trades working his way thru school, he was particularly proud of spending a whole extra day perfectly sanding a large set of birch cabinets, just prior to finishing. Then the next day, a crew showed up with bicycle chains and awls, charging an extra 6K to "distress" it . He was livid. And in this neighborhood, several big shops sell rustic furniture, 95% of it being shipped in that way right from China. Of course, the
average bozo that fall for that stuff doesn't know the difference between teak and ramin or poplar. One easy way to tell is boil it. If it tastes like Ramen, it probably is ramin.

Alan Gales · Mar 17, 2016

I bet your nephew would have liked to have taken a bicycle chain to their cars and told them he was just distressing them!

Neil Poulsen · Mar 19, 2016

Personally, I would not get either the 1570 nor the Sinar pan-tilt. They both have off-center axes. This means that, as one loosens front to back tilt, the camera's weight will cause the camera to tilt back on its own. Besides, while the 1570 low profile will work, it's overkill for a Norma. I much prefer that cameras balance on top of the head.

I've looked into the Induro, and they look good. Their 5-way concept would be convenient. The Arca plate systems have advantages.

One thing about your camera system, is that you have built in side to side tilt. (The camera tilts side to side on its rail.) So, one really only needs front to back tilt and pan in heads used with this camera. So, something similar to 181999667169 at the auction site would work. It weighs about a pound, has a high maximum load, and it's only about 4" tall.

I've been using Manfrotto 3039 with the hexagonal plate. This is an excellent head, so I'll keep using it for a while. But, I like the Arca style plates and may change systems at some point in the future.

Woodhead · Mar 20, 2016

Thanks for the detailed suggestion Neil, I will look into those different options with interest this week. Greatly appreciate your input.

Yesterday I had a little play with a mate's Sinar F on a Toyo View pan tilt head and that seemed a stable combination. Much better than my sloppy 410.

Norma needs better head and legs

Woodhead

Jim Noel

shutterfinger

Woodhead

Sirius Glass

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