Noob: Wanting to start developing 120MF Film Need Links, Advice Please

Hello all,

I'm hoping this is the correct group to post this in....

I am currently enjoying starting to shoot 120 MF film!!

I've acquired a Hassy 501 CM, a Yashicha MAT 124G, an Ondu 6x12 pinhole camera (kickstarter that started me on this film path), and a Fuji GSW690 III, and most recently, a Shen Hao 6x17 view camera.

I"m loving shooting all these interesting formats, and I do have a local shop that develops film fo rme quickly and at about $7.50 a roll.

But I'm wanting to learn to develop on my own and really own the whole analog process.
And, with the virus thing, doing it at home might not be the worst idea either.


So, I've been watching YouTube videos...and it appears the Patterson system looks to be the way to go.

Would this be a good set to start with?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/886586-REG/Paterson_Universal_Tank_with_Two.html

I'm looking to develop my film and then scan in myself to work with and send off to have large prints made, or smaller ones on my local printer.

What other equipment would I want to get? Containers for mixing chemicals? Squeegees? Gloves of some type?


I'm thinking best to start with B&W....that's the simplest to start with right?

I usually shoot:
B&W:
Kodak Tri-X 400
Ilford Delta 400, HP5 400...occasionally the Delta 3200...

For color, pretty much just Kodak Portra 400....with some 160 thrown in from time to time.

What chemicals do I need to get?

Can anyone recommend for a TOTAL NOOB, some good website links on instructions on what to do? Good books?

From some YT videos...it appears there needs to be controls on temperature. I was trying to think out of the box and picked up a sous vide water bath stick, thinking that would help for a water bath to keep chemicals at temperature....

Anyway...again, I have NO experience in this and no clue where to start....but really want to learn.

Any and all advice GREATLY appreciated!!!

cayenne

The Paterson tank is a good piece of equipment. Some people have a little problem with loading the film onto the reel but a little practice and keeping the reels clean and dry gets you past that. Keep reading through the archives and watching the basics on youtube, I got started with way less than that in the late 60’s. Look around and check for availability of your chemicals in your area, there may be a local shop selling it if you’re lucky. Otherwise theres plenty of sources online, Ive even found stuff on Amazon.
Liquid concentrates from Ilford at this point seems to be the most convenient and fairly cost effective. Photographers Formulary is a good place to get the more traditional powder formulas that some of the big companies used to make as well as some more “exotic” flavors.
Post again when you have more specific questions, we love to help a newbie.

Under 'Resources' look for videos by Greg Davis. He made many of them to help people like you.

For example, here is one on "Which film tank should I get?"
https://www.photrio.com/forum/resources/video-what-film-tank-should-you-get.365/

I like the Paterson tanks, but keep in mind the number of 120 reels that can be fit any given tank.

If you do any amount of volume then the 'single 120'/'2 35mm' reel tank may be a bit of a headache if it is the only tank you have, but at the same time remember to double check what reels are included with the tank you're buying! [Hint, the larger ones typically aren't sold with reels...] But that can be solved by slowly building up a collection of tanks... Currently I have 2 tanks that will hold a single 120 reel, and I think 3 that will hold 2 120 reels. This lets me shoot a collection of film or different push/pull combinations without excessive waits - I can load up a bunch of tanks and process them back to back. [But I also now find I need larger tanks as well, because, 'back-log'...]

Extra reels are your friend. Keep them clean, and make sure they're dry as a bone before trying to load. Even humidity from the sweat of your hands on a warm day can be enough to make the process harder than it needs to be.

Also watch out for the smallest single-35mm reel tank if you're planning on doing 120 film.

You can also 'double load' 120 film onto the 120/220 reels - But you'll want to save that for after you're very confident with loading a single 120 roll of film, as getting the second roll aligned and feeding properly can be a bit of a pain. However being able to do 4 rolls of film at once with the same chemistry in the easily handled tanks can come in handy if you're like me and build up a backlog.

Based on the number of 120 film cameras you have, I too would recommend the Paterson tank that allows for two reels set to the 120 size. In case you haven't realized it yet, the reels are adjustable - the ones you linked to adjust between 135/127/120 sizes.
That kit plus an additional larger tank would give you lots of flexibility.
The Ilford Learning Zone has lots of good info - be sure to scroll through all the pages of links: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/category/learning-zone/page/1/
This Kodak publication provides a good summary, and with respect to films still refers to current products: https://125px.com/docs/techpubs/kodak/AJ-3-2016.pdf
One of Henry Horestein's basic books would be good: https://bookoutlet.ca/Store/Details...MI7aSY-sKk6AIVcxh9Ch0Ezw7wEAYYAiABEgKvkfD_BwE

As a fellow noob, and from recommendations here, I bought the Dennis Curtin book:
"Into your darkroom step by step"
(plenty of used copies on the net)

Very well laid out, and good breakdown in easy chunks.


.....
Oh, and you gonna ruin you septic tank!
d&r

Thank you VERY much everyone!!

Ok, I"m gonna start digging through the links and maybe pick up a book too....as that it appears I will have plenty of down time at home to read coming up...hahaha.

I may go ahead and look into buying that Patterson Tank that holds and come with two reels at B&H and get that on the way....I think that will be my starting point, and in the meantime, I'll try to digest the videos and reading from the links you great folks have posted here!!

Thank you so much in advance!!

C

PS, can ya'll recommend what types and sizes of measuring cups/beakers, etc...I should get too? I might as well order those along with the Patterson system...

Whatever you end up with, practice loading film on the reel, first with lights on, then in total darkness. Do this a number of times until you feel confident about the procedure. It is easy to dent 120 film if you manhandle it while loading and it will show up on the negative and print. I find using some nail clippers to trim the leading corners off the film a bit less than 1/4" at 45º makes it easier to load.

First, there is just one "t" in Paterson .
I have a couple of good quality measuring graduates that were aimed at the photographic darkroom market, but I don't use them much.
Everything I use regularly I bought from the kitchen section of local Dollar stores.
I checked the graduation against the "good" ones I had, and they were close enough - consistency is usually more important for this sort of stuff than absolute accuracy.
Make decisions based on how easy they are to read, whether they have markings for both ounces and millilitres, how easy they are to handle, fill and pour and whether they will store nested inside of each other (to save space).
I get a lot of use out of 600 ml beakers and 1000 ml plastic beakers, plus a nice 2 litre Paterson plastic jug.
The small, 50 and 150 ml Paterson graduates are also handy.
But then so are the graduated glass "shot" glasses that came from the Dollar store.
Many will dedicate a particular graduate to developers - a good idea, but you can accomplish the same by being fastidious about thorough rinsing of each graduate after each use.

Another basic is a thermometer. There are "photographic" cooking, digital and glass.
Oddly the photographic seem to be a little more expensive. Accuracy is good but you don't need to go overboard.
1/4 to 1/2 stop @ 68 degrees is good and typical developing temp for B&W is 68f/20C.

This is probably apparent by now, but just in case, you will notice that you will see lots of references to both metric and non-metric measurements. When it comes to measurements in photographic resources, you will see both, so it is a good idea to obtain measuring instruments calibrated in both ways.
I'm always surprised when I am in a US store and none of the reasonably priced tape measures have metric scales. At home in Canada, and I expect through most of the world, everything is at least metric, if not both.

Stainless steel tanks and Hewes reels were my go to darkroom equipment for 135 and 120 film for years before I moved to the Jobo system. I got mine from FreeStyle one of this websites sponsors www.freestylephoto.biz

cayenne said:

[snipped]

What chemicals do I need to get?

[snipped]

Click to expand...

Hi Cayenne, welcome to Photrio.

ILFORD has a nice video on Youtube:

Chemicals (B&W):
a) Developer: Ilford ID-11 is a good, all-round powder dev to get started with. Kodak D76 is almost identical to it. You can also buy liquid devs that are easier to mix, but make sure it's for film rather than paper.
b) Stop bath / short stop: Any brand will do - Ilford Ilfostop is odourless
c) Fixer: any brand will do.
d) Wetting agent: Kodak Photoflo or Ilford Ilfotol are commonly recommended. One bottle will last you for years!

I wouldn't recommend using squeegee tongs; they are a great way to scratch film. Wetting agent helps water flow off the film so you don't get drying spots.

Generally, Black and White is a great way to learn film processing. Colour film processing is almost as simple but the timing and temperature control are much more critical so mis-timing or getting the temperature wrong can give disappointing results. It's also a bit more expensive.

Since you're starting "at the deep end" with 120 film, you should know it's wider it's slightly more difficult to load into the spiral (reel). My tips:

a) Work the film into the spiral slowly -- don't rush or you might crease the film.
b) Ensure the tank and spiral are *completely* dry before you start loading film. Moisture in the grooves of the spiral can make film stick, causing it to buckle.
c) Always use the little plastic clips to secure the spiral to the core; this stps the spiral from riding up the core during processing.
d) Make sure to use sufficient chemicals to fully cover the film; in Paterson tanks it's 500ml per film. Extra is fin
e) This page has some good tips for loading spirals: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/loading-film-into-a-spiral

Good luck with your film journey.

FWIW, I much prefer the stainless steel reels to Paterson ones because I find them easier to load and I don't have wait until everything is completely dry with the plastic reels. That said, I think I went with the Hewes reels initially because I had read they were easier to load for MF film than the plastic ones, but that just may be user preference.

As for other supplies, I bought most of mine from photo stores, but as Matt said, you can buy equivalents from dollar stores or in the household section of others. Because I often have a backlog of film, I have multiple tanks and reels - I can load them all up at once and get an assembly line going once I start developing. Here's what I have equipment-wise (bear in mind this is what I've built up over the years, I didn't have everything at the beginning):

-3 large metal tanks that hold 2 120 reels each and 1 small one that holds one reel (I have 7 reels). I also have spare plastic lids for when they eventually start leaking over time.
-6 graduates that hold 1-1.2L each - one dedicated to developer, stop, fix, and HCA/washaid (not absolutely necessary for film but I was trained to use it and it helps reduce water wash times/usage). The other two are spares - either for water stop/pre-soak, or if I am also using an alkaline fixer. I also have a large 5L graduate that is useful for mixing powders, since they range from 3.5-5L total.
-3-4 stirring paddles, one for each graduate, although you could just use one and rinse between mixing.
-1 cylinder (up to 50ml) for measuring small amounts of chemicals
-a few syringes for measuring out small amounts of syrupy chemicals (like HC-110) or developers that use very small amounts (like pyro-based ones). The ones I have go up to 6ml.
-1 or more thermometers to check chemical temperatures. For colour you would need a really accurate one. You may find that if you have 3 different thermometers, they will all read temperatures differently (1-2 degrees +/-). I tend to use the same one for critical temps (like developer) and others for water/non-critical temps.
-10 (or more) opaque storage bottles, usually 500ml to 1L capacity. Most of my developers are made from powders (D-76, Xtol, etc) so I need to be able to store the stock somehow. I like the accordion style ones that I can squeeze the air out of. I also have a few spares for keeping working solutions that are still good (like stop and fix). I never use replenished developers (other than Diafine) but having extra containers would be good for that. When I've run out of "proper" photo bottles, I've used larger green/brown beer bottles with resealable lids for chemical storage, and I know some people use wine bladders. Even regular plastic bottles are okay short-term if you keep the chemicals in a dark place otherwise. Having some kind of protection spray to keep chemicals from oxidising is useful but not necessary if you use them quite frequently.
-a way to hang film. I use those small laundry racks (often used for drying underwear) that I hang from a pole in my bathroom. I just use regular clothes pins to weigh down the film. You can get simple plastic ones from the dollar store (something I did for years), but I recently got metal ones which a like a lot more since they don't twist around and hold the film (or paper, if and when you start printing) absolutely straight. (similar to this, although I got mine at Muji which are a lot cheaper)
-something to keep your negatives in. I use Printfile sleeves, the ones that also will store a contact sheet with them. I always try to have a good supply of them so I don't run out and then have no way to store my film once dry.

If you're anything lie me, who only develops film occasionally, I'd take a look at Rodinal types of developer or HC110 to avoid having to throw away expired developer.

Question about Paterson tanks.

If I got one that will hold 2x 120 reels at time.

Is there a way to use it at times where I might only have 1 reel of 120 to develop? Can you just put the 2nd empty reel in there and would that work?
Do you have to use the same amount of chemicals for 1 reel in this larger tank as you do for 2 reels in it?

I'm trying to decide if I need to get a single smaller tank too....for when I only have one reel of 120 film.

TIA,

cayenne

Yes, an empty 120 reel makes an excellent spacer. You can even use a clip (or rubber band) to just hold a single roll in place. I have enough additional reels to not have to bother.
You can use the smaller amount of chemicals indicated on the bottom of the tank when developing a single roll.
I really like having the flexibility of an additional tank. If you get extra reels as well, that will set you up for developing batches of film.
If you get to the point where you have lots of experience and have really fine tuned your process, wwew can discuss the extremely subtle differences between using a full tank and a half full tank - but no point doing that now.

So much great advice here! One thing, don’t over think it- just jump in and do it! You’re going to make mistakes- we all do, accept it. Most important is to dive in. When those images come up when you pull the film out of the fixer you’ll swear it’s magic- it still feels that way to me. I started developing when I was about 10 years old, it’s still magic to me.
BTW, freestylephoto.biz is a great resource for all the bits you’ll need.

cayenne said:

Question about Paterson tanks.

If I got one that will hold 2x 120 reels at time.

Is there a way to use it at times where I might only have 1 reel of 120 to develop? Can you just put the 2nd empty reel in there and would that work?
Do you have to use the same amount of chemicals for 1 reel in this larger tank as you do for 2 reels in it?

I'm trying to decide if I need to get a single smaller tank too....for when I only have one reel of 120 film.

TIA,

cayenne

Click to expand...

I don't like to disagree with MattKing, but I suggest getting the Paterson tank (2x35mm, 1x120) with 2 reels. The problem with using 2 reels (1 empty as a spacer) is that the reels have to be really dry to load well. So once used, you may not be able to use them again for a while. And, just starting out, you probably want to develop 1 roll at a time anyway. Having a 2nd dry reel allows you to develop a 2nd roll right away. Of course there are alternatives. You could always buy a 3rd reel and you could cut a spacer out of PVC pipe. But it seems we always want a 1 reel tank around anyway.

My one reel (35mm) stainless steel tank probably gets used the most often. My one reel (120) tank next.

Do get the tank that holds 2 120 reels! I have one that holds 1 120 reel and have found it limiting. I can live with it as I don't shoot much 120, but for 135 I really like being able to develop 2 rolls at a time. Yes, you can develop just one roll in it as well.

Having a range of equipment offers you options in how to complete a task. If you only have one option to pick from, then you have to use that single option for every task you're tackling and deal with the negative compromises that may come with it...

In an ideal world you have a nice large collection of tanks of different sizes and tons of reels to fill them with... In a more practical world as starting out, you're probably going to want to settle on a single tank, then decide what to expand on from there.

Ignoring other options and going with the most common manual option with the Paterson line: The most straightforward option to dive in and start your tank collection is going to be the basic "2 reel" [single 120] tank, usually sold as "Paterson Universal Tank with Two Reels (Super System 4)"

You'll get the tank and its extra 'bits', and a pair of adjustable reels for around $30 USD.
A similar price will get you the slightly larger tank to hold two 120 reels, but it doesn't come with the reels...

So there is some strong argument behind buying the smaller tank, doing a few test runs, and then upgrading to the larger tank.

From there, you'll have to decide if you want to buy more reels and which sized tanks. Or maybe you'll just be frustrated and send your film off to someone else to develop.

I don't know about the Paterson tanks, but the reels on the Jobo tank stay in place, so there is no need for a spacer if you are using fewer reels than the capacity.

Hmm...just looked up what jobo was....looks really cool, but that kit new appears over $1600 for the machine....I think I'll start off a bit more manual and simpler.

Ok, I think this is the hardware I'm going with:

Peterson Multi Reel Tank (2x 120 at a time):
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40338-REG/Paterson_PTP116_Multi_Reel_3_Tank_ONLY.html

Set of 6 Reels:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/253369-REG/Paterson_PTP120_Auto_Load_Adjustable_Reel.html

Thermometer:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40328-REG/Paterson_PTP381_12_Color_Thermometer.html
(Although, I'm thinking I might just get a digital probe thermometer instead....?)

Peterson Stirrer:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40303-REG/Paterson_PTP245_Chemical_Stirrer.html


And some glassware for measuring and storing chemicals:
Graduated cylinders:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01ECAQPWA/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A258FD0WHNW6Z2&psc=1

3x of the 1L beakers:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006VYXZG0/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A29JIFH4ZXPNL8&psc=1

And some 1L storage jugs:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FDH5L6N/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=AJ8UK8AG6ED0R&psc=1

I think that should do me on equipment...stuff to measure, stuff to pour and store......and the Tank system to do 2x 120 reels at a time and extra reels to be 'dry' for doing more than a couple a day.

I'm starting to shoot my new 6x17...and with only 4 images a roll with that thing, I'm thinking I"ll easily be doing 2 x rolls of 120 at a time.


Anyway, how does that look for equipment?

NEXT. ---->>>. Chemicals

Ok first I've decided to quit just shooting different films willy nilly till I get this down. I'm going to stick with Ilford HP5 400 B&W film I think. I might throw some TMAX-400 from time to time, but thinking stick with one film to see how it goes and what happens with variations in methodology.

Any recommendations for chemicals for the HP5 400 film?

From videos I've watching I'm considering:

Developer : Either Kodak HC-110. or lford Ilfotec HC. --->>>>. Thoughts on if one of these is better than the other?

Stop: Ilford IlfoStop

Fixer: Ilford Rapid Fixer

Wetting Agent: Ilford Wetting Agent


Does this sound about Right? I"ve watched the videos listed on this thread and more on the Resources section of the forum (thanks for that tip!!)

And watched several YouTube videos on B&W film developing and I feel fairly comfortable with the process.

Does this looks like a good starting point for equipment and chemicals?


OH....can someone recommend hanging clips?

Thanks in Advance!!

cayenne

A piece of string or wire and some clips for drying--to hang the film from the line and weigh the end to keep it from curling up. I string the line in the shower in the bathroom, I can draw the curtain and minimize dust.