Noob darkroom setup questions

Hello all. I am new to film photography and in setting in my home dark room have a few questions I cannot find the answer to looking through youtube. I am looking to get into B&W only for now.

1. Most developers are one-shot, but most other chemicals are usually reusable? How much can i.e. fixer be reused? How will I know when I need to mix up a new batch?

2. I know you can spool up a roll of film into a dev tank in a darkroom bag, but is it OK to do it in a darkroom with a red light as well?

3. Photographic paper is so darned expensive these days. Any cheaper sources than I am looking at (B&H, amazon, eBay)?

4. Can DF96 be used to develop paper? Generally how usable in film developer for print development? I realize its different dilutions.

5. How necessary is photoflo/whetting agent? Can you just wipe film dry with your fingers or tongs?

6. I have heard color development at home is difficult enough to be not worth attempting for most. I can only have a fairly simply set-up. Is color out for me?

7. Which chemicals are light-sensitive and should be stored long-term in those special light-proof bottles vs. whatever you have lying around the house?

8. What is the shelf-life of the chemicals other than developer? I realize it varies by product, but does one tend to be shorter lasting than the others? Particular products shorter lived?

If I think of anything else I might add it later.

As a fellow film novitiate, I can attest that you will find many of these answers through simple google searches such as "shelf life chemicals photrio" or "photo flo necessary photrio"

I wouldn't mention it if I didn't think reading through past threads would be of greater benefit to you. You will find that this forum houses a much greater depth of experience than youtube, and that a lot of times simple answers are elusive.

One thing I will tell you is that paper costs roughly the same wherever I've looked.

I have answered the ones I can in your post below:



1. Most developers are one-shot, but most other chemicals are usually reusable? How much can i.e. fixer be reused? How will I know when I need to mix up a new batch? I don't know.

2. I know you can spool up a roll of film into a dev tank in a darkroom bag, but is it OK to do it in a darkroom with a red light as well?

For most modern films that new users like me use, red light is not safe. They are sensitive to red light (panchromatic), while paper is not. You can buy orthochromatic film that would be fine under red light but will give you different results.

3. Photographic paper is so darned expensive these days. Any cheaper sources than I am looking at (B&H, amazon, eBay)? I'm not sure.

You can try Freestyle, maybe. Also, keep an eye out here. Post in the WTB section.

4. Can DF96 be used to develop paper? Generally how usable in film developer for print development? I realize its different dilutions. I don't know.

5. How necessary is photoflo/whetting agent? Can you just wipe film dry with your fingers or tongs?

I think this depends on your water. Water differs throughout the country. I don't normally have problems, even if I don't use a wetting agent. You can also use distilled water, and will probably be fine.

6. I have heard color development at home is difficult enough to be not worth attempting for most. I can only have a fairly simply set-up. Is color out for me?

Buy a sous vide wand and you'll be fine. It is not that hard, but can be a little tedious... especially E-6.

7. Which chemicals are light-sensitive and should be stored long-term in those special light-proof bottles vs. whatever you have lying around the house?

None that I use, but I don't print (yet).

8. What is the shelf-life of the chemicals other than developer? I realize it varies by product, but does one tend to be shorter lasting than the others? Particular products shorter lived?

Powder lasts the longest. Concentrate can last a long time, too. Once it is mixed and open, you should at least decant it to give yourself a longer shelf life for your chemicals.

BGriffin23 said:

Hello all. I am new to film photography and in setting in my home dark room have a few questions I cannot find the answer to looking through youtube. I am looking to get into B&W only for now.

1. Most developers are one-shot, but most other chemicals are usually reusable? How much can i.e. fixer be reused? How will I know when I need to mix up a new batch?

2. I know you can spool up a roll of film into a dev tank in a darkroom bag, but is it OK to do it in a darkroom with a red light as well?

3. Photographic paper is so darned expensive these days. Any cheaper sources than I am looking at (B&H, amazon, eBay)?

4. Can DF96 be used to develop paper? Generally how usable in film developer for print development? I realize its different dilutions.

5. How necessary is photoflo/whetting agent? Can you just wipe film dry with your fingers or tongs?

6. I have heard color development at home is difficult enough to be not worth attempting for most. I can only have a fairly simply set-up. Is color out for me?

7. Which chemicals are light-sensitive and should be stored long-term in those special light-proof bottles vs. whatever you have lying around the house?

8. What is the shelf-life of the chemicals other than developer? I realize it varies by product, but does one tend to be shorter lasting than the others? Particular products shorter lived?

If I think of anything else I might add it later.

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1. Most chemistry manufacturers list a capacity for their products. You can follow their guidelines. Capacity is usually listed as a number of 8x10 sheets; one roll of 36 exposure 35mm film is equal to one sheet, as is one roll of 120 film/

2. No, you cannot use a red light for film. The exception is orthochromatic film, but you are unlikely to find any. Film before developing should be handled in total darkness which can be changing bag for a light-tight darkroom with the lights off. Fluorescent lights can give off a glow long after they are turned off, so don't use them in the darkroom.

3. For lower costs, buy RC variable contrast paper in at least 100 sheet boxes. 5x7 is less than half the size of 8x10 size and a good way to get started.

4. I don't know.

5. I recommend a wetting agent, as it is very hard to get negatives dry without water spots without it. It is such a strong dilution, that a bottle will probably last you many years.

6. Color development is not difficult, it is just very sensitive to temperature, so make sure you get your black and white processing skills perfected before trying color.

7. Developer is more sensitive to light, others not so much. Glass is best for all photo chemicals, but heavy plastic bottles can be used. Avoid plastic milk cartons, as the plastic used in them can breathe and let oxygen in.

8. Generally, you can keeps mixed chemicals for several months without problems. The Kodak Master Darkroom dataguide gave shelf life numbers for various of their products if you can find a used copy. Some chemicals, such as Rodinal developer will last for years when unmixed.

BGriffin23 said:

Hello all. I am new to film photography and in setting in my home dark room have a few questions I cannot find the answer to looking through youtube. I am looking to get into B&W only for now.

1. Most developers are one-shot, but most other chemicals are usually reusable? How much can i.e. fixer be reused? How will I know when I need to mix up a new batch?

2. I know you can spool up a roll of film into a dev tank in a darkroom bag, but is it OK to do it in a darkroom with a red light as well?

3. Photographic paper is so darned expensive these days. Any cheaper sources than I am looking at (B&H, amazon, eBay)?

4. Can DF96 be used to develop paper? Generally how usable in film developer for print development? I realize its different dilutions.

5. How necessary is photoflo/whetting agent? Can you just wipe film dry with your fingers or tongs?

6. I have heard color development at home is difficult enough to be not worth attempting for most. I can only have a fairly simply set-up. Is color out for me?

7. Which chemicals are light-sensitive and should be stored long-term in those special light-proof bottles vs. whatever you have lying around the house?

8. What is the shelf-life of the chemicals other than developer? I realize it varies by product, but does one tend to be shorter lasting than the others? Particular products shorter lived?

If I think of anything else I might add it later.

Click to expand...

1. Not all developers are one-shot. read the label and/or data sheet. Fixer can be tested by dipping a small piece of unexposed/undevloped film--like a bit of the leader from 35mm--in the fixer and timing how long it takes to clear the emulsion. Over a minute and the fixer is on it's way out. Once again, read the data sheet or label of the fixer, it should state how many rolls of film or sheets of paper can be fixed.

2. No.

3. Not any more expensive than good inkjet paper.

4. I don't know, I don't use it.

5. It is not absolutely necessary but recommended. DO NOT use fingers or tongs or a squeegee to wipe wet film.

6. Get your feet wet with black and white before jumping into color, especially printing.

7 & 8 (and for most everything) READ THE DATA SHEETS. Act accordingly.

Welcome to Photrio.
The manufacturer's data sheets have all sorts of valuable information in them. Most can be found on their websites.
Ilford's website is here: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/
Kodak Alaris' website is here: https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/photographers-photo-printing/resources/techenvironment
There are also links to data sheets in many product listings in retailer websites.
If you have a room or a closet that you can make fully dark - even if only at night - you can use it instead of changing bag. In fact, it is better than a changing bag.
In some cases, the best answer to your questions may be that you should do some things now, but can consider doing other things later once you gain experience. Your question about one shot developer is one example (with a bit more experience you may wish to try replenishment). Your question about colour is another example (don't start with it, but don't exclude the possibility for the future).
Adorama and Photo Warehouse and Freestyle are a few more competitors worth looking at for paper prices. Start with RC paper and, if possible, buy a 100 sheet box of variable contrast 8"x10" paper. You can always cut it into smaller sheets as you learn.
Print developer needs to be stronger than film developer (normally). If you adjust film developer to work with prints, it tends to end up being expensive. DF96 is a monobath I believe - you don't want to start with it for prints!
Your wetting agent will last for a really large number of films. Don't use fingers or sponges or squeegees unless the squeegee is both high grade and scrupulously maintained and used with a fair bit of technique - in other words, don't.
Good bottles with very low oxygen permeability are important. Club soda bottles actually work well after they have been emptied and cleaned - as long as the caps remain good.
Some chemicals - primarily developers - need to be shielded from light during storage. A cupboard door or a plastic storage tub to hold the bottles can do that for you.
As far as storage life is concerned, those data sheets have answers. Developers are probably the most likely to be short-lived, but this varies greatly.
Don't get too focused on storage life. As an example, people get really concerned about not being able to use a mixed up 5 litres of X-Tol developer within the Kodak.recommended six month time frame. But those people should consider that that package of developer costs them ~$12 USD - or $2 per month. If after 6 months they still have $4 worth of developer left, it isn't a disaster if they decide, out of an excess of caution, to discard it and make a new batch.
Both Ilford and Kodak Alaris have publications aimed at the beginning darkroom user.
Here is the Kodak one: https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/prod/files/files/products/AJ-3.pdf
Here is a good section of the Ilford website: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/category/learning-zone/beginner-series/

MattKing said:

DF96 is a monobath I believe - you don't want to start with it for prints!

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Indeed. It can work, but figuring out the right combination of exposure and development time and temperature is going to be extremely tricky. It would be an unnecessarily complicated approach with no clear benefit at all.