Non-working "B" setting on Rolleiflex

[Vaughn]

I am trying to sell a Rolleiflex 3.5A (Tessar) for a friend whose pro-photographer partner died a while back. (Serial number 1276xxx)

It is in pretty good shape, small bubble in the taking lens (should make no difference to the images), self-timer is crisp, times seem to be good (by ear -- tho 1 sec might be closer to 1.5 sec), focuses smoothly, clean, decent ever-ready case and all that.

BUT -- the "B" setting does not work -- shutter fires, but it closes rather quickly even with the shutter button still depressed. I use a "B" setting a lot, so I assume many people do -- so I don't think I can get much for it without a CLA and repair.

Is this a common problem? One that can be easily repaired?

Vaughn

 

[Ian Grant]

Any issue like that means the shuttrer needs a CLA, in the UK that means a complete strip down and rebuild, but you get a camera and shutter back that's fine for many more years.

Before you think my comment strange there is a tendency for some US repairers to just clean and test the speeds issuing a slip of paper with the actual speed compared to the marked speed and they can be a stop out. That never happens in the UK.

Ian

 

[Vaughn]

I will have to make a decision to front some cash to have it CLA and repaired -- and then hope I can sell it for enough to make it worthwhile for my friend. I am leaning that way just because I learned with a Rolleiflex and I hate to see one not get used!

Vaughn

PS -- did not think your statement to be strange -- it is just a matter of cost, I suppose. It does make sense to have the entire camera gone through if one is going to send it in for repair, rather than save some dollars by just having the lens tested.

It just seems odd that the rest of the shutter seems fine except for the "B" setting.

 

[Dan Daniel]

There is a lever inside shutters that will slide into a notch when the shutter is set for B. If this lever doesn't slide into place, the shutter will do what you describe. This indicates that either a spring has broken or slipped, the lever itself has broken or slipped, or most likely that there is gummed up grease or dirt preventing it from moving into place. Most likely a simple cleaning will take care of it. Using for a while, moving the shutter dial back and forth, might also get it working. This and the slowish 1-sec. says that a cleaning would be nice. At the least, a warning to a buyer that it will need a cleaning.

This lever and notch, by the way, has only one function- for B. So it is very possible for just this function to be off while everything else gives at least some signs of life.

Paul Ebel does good work on Rolleis. Mark Hansen. Along with Fleenor and Krikor, of course. Closer to you, Seawood Camera in San Rafael might be worth contacting to see if they either do repairs or know of a repair place- Dead Link Removed they sell used Rolleis and check over older cameras. Whether to get it done or sell it as is is a difficult decision since getting it done right can cost enough that it is hard to recoup.

FYI, I overhauled this model, super clean but gummed up from no use, and sold it for $350 (inlcuding hood) in the Bay Area recently. Just to give an idea as you figure out costs, etc.

 

[Vaughn]

Thanks Dan -- I'll give it some more exercise. I have sent a couple of the university's Rollicords to Mark Hansen in Portland...just a tiny bit farther than San Rafael, not enough to make a difference.

I'd like to get $200 to my friend for it, so it sounds like it is 6 of one or 3 pairs of the other as far as getting it worked on or not. But a fully working camera is easier to sell. If I did not already have an older 2.8F, a Mamiya 330 (w/ 4 lenses -- saving this for my kids to use) and a Graflex 22 (aka Ciroflex, mine has a 85mm/3.5 Graftar lens) -- plus a folder and my Diana camera, I'd just buy it myself. I really only use the Rollei and the Diana (along with a 5x7, 8x10 and an 11x14, of course -- I haven't used 4x5 in a long while).

Vaughn

 

[Dan Daniel]

If you want to see what is going on, look at this page-
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/zeiss ikonta opton.html
Near the top is a photo with two red arrows, and then two shots showing the speed cam. The second one of these will animate if you give it a second.

As it turns clockwise, pay attention to an internal lever that runs from about 7:30 to 9:00, to the right of the external triangle (the shutter release) at about 8:30. The lever's 9:00 end drops into a small cut-out at the end of the clockwise motion, goes towards the center. This is the B lever. When it drops to the inside, it ties the shutter to the lever itself.

And if it doesn't drop in, nothing happens. The escapement is already cut out by other spacing issues, so the shutter simply opens and closes, game over.

I had emailed Mark Hansen about overhauling the shutter in this model. He quoted around $75 plus parts. This was with me just sending in the shutter block, not sure what he gets for opening up the camera, etc.

 

[Vaughn]

Thanks, Dan. Now I know why I do not open up shutters! LOL! I have worked as the darkroom tech for a university for 20 years and one would think that such fine work would be a matter of course for me. Unfortunately, my hand/finger skills are far more suited to the work I did for ten years before I became the darkroom tech -- which was as a mule packer, trail builder and firefighter. Shovels, pick axes, cross-cut saws, hoof picks and double bits are more my style. Tho I can handle enlargers quite well...

 

[BrianShaw]

...quoted around $75 plus parts. ...

Twice that is the expected cost of a "proper" (Ian's definition) shutter servicing. That probably won't include overhaul of the focus mechanism either.

 

[Ian Grant]

Twice that is the expected cost of a "proper" (Ian's definition) shutter servicing. That probably won't include overhaul of the focus mechanism either.

Actually the UK (and the rset of Europe) is normally more expensive for servicing/repairs but my Yashicamat was £50 ($80) for a full shutter repair, my Rollieflex E2 was higher but the whole camera needed relubricating as well as a shutter CLA, it had hardly been used since bought new in the early 1960's, that was around £90 ($150).

So on that basis $75 sounds right for a full rebuild of a Rolleiflex shutter.

Ian

 

[BrianShaw]

All I'm saying, Ian, is that the prices I've been quoted in California for Rollei TLR rebuild (thrice) are more like $150 for shutter and $150 for focus and wind mechanism. That's pretty close to the ACTUAL QUOTE not extrapolation or guesstimate.

I know for a fact that there are less expensive quotes out there (Paul Ebell, Carol Flutot/Miller, and apparently Mark Hansen too). I have no experience with them but they sure have quite the following.

I don't really know what "the right price" is; I suppose it depends on who one wants to put their trust in and how much they are willing to pay.

The guy I use for shutter rebuilds is on the high side of shutter overhaul pricing, and does not deliver a snippet of paper with shutter speed measurements -- but he ALWAYS delivers me shutters that are within spec and run without question for long periods of time. Everyone has different criteria and experience; I'm just sharing mine.

Maybe California is more expensive than both the UK, EU, and US combined.

 

[BrianShaw]

p.s. For Vaughn, it is possible that investing in fixing up the Rollei to sell might be less worthwhile than selling as is. Vaugn's choice based on the estimates he gets from repair shops rather than in this thread. Investing in fixing it up to use is a very different situation, IMO.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Paul Ebel estimated $86 plus parts for this shutter. I am using a 2.8C with a different shutter in it that he overhauled and it is very clean. Flutots, same range. Again, all of these are sending in just a shutter block, no camera attached.

The Synchro-Compur is an overly complicated shutter. A Copal in a Yashica-Mat is a much simpler mechanism (and yet does exactly what the Synchro-Compur does, go figure....).

 

[BrianShaw]

Not surprising, Dan. The prices I mention included handing them the camera and letting them do all of the work.

Interestingly (but somewhat OT), on a large format shutter I got the same price quote from Paul. I ended up paying more ($135) for the "convenience" of dealing with a local guy who I trust and can easily drive to in person. The price of skilled labor seems to vary quite a bit.