non toxic options

tballphoto · Mar 16, 2021

Been using the Df96 monobath, not the happiest with its results. so variable on the same roll. even when shooting the same scene multiple times with the same camera settings, each frame can turn out differently.

Would like to find a non toxic and odorless developer to use. Have thought about rodinal but ill be doing it in my bathroom and well, the first few uses of Df96 has a mild smell, then nothing i could detect. And some accounts claimed that Df96 had a horrid smell.

MattKing · Mar 16, 2021

Black and white film developers don't tend to have much of a smell.
Stop baths and fixers can be more smelly.
The smell doesn't really correlate with toxicity - the second smelliest photo chemical I use is probably Kodak stop bath, which is essentially vinegar with some harmless indicator added to it.
Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) based developers are probably the least toxic of the commonly available ones, but outside of the pyro developers, no commonly available developer is of much concern, if it is used with normal caution (i.e. don't drink it or bathe in it).
The Eco Pro line of chemicals advertise their low level of toxicity, although you can probably obtain similar results from others.

Donald Qualls · Mar 16, 2021

The least toxic developers aren't the least stinky. Caffenol (which you could probably drink, though I really, really wouldn't) is coffee, vitamin C, and laundry soda (though some have made it with baking soda). Pretty innocuous stuff, but it smells like a two day old used broiler pan after a beef roast. What I'd recommend in terms of innocuousness is Xtol or EcoPro -- phenidone/ascorbate developers are pretty harmless, and they almost no odor.

Follow that will a citric acid stop bath, instead of acetic acid, and you'll eliminated the vinegar odor; use a near-neutral or mildly alkaline fixer and you'll nearly eliminate odors there, too.

QED!

tballphoto · Mar 16, 2021

Could you suggest some citric acid stop bath by name or even one of those fixers?

I have a hard time figuring out what product is what, film photo project and their rebranded products really make things hard to compare.

Or at the least think of anyone with a website that uses those?

Donald Qualls · Mar 16, 2021

Look for "odorless" stop bath and fixer; those will be citric acid stop bath and either citric acid or neutral/alkaline fixer.

eddie · Mar 16, 2021

I think Sprint makes a vanilla scented stop bath.

Andrew O'Neill · Mar 16, 2021

or make your own stop bath with dilute vinegar.

DREW WILEY · Mar 16, 2021

Toxicity and annoying odor are NOT synonymous issues. You can have a chemical without an annoying smell which is nonetheless unhealthy to work with, or visa versa. Then there is the case of irritants - not necessarily toxic, but still capable of noxious long-term symptoms. There is simply no substitute for routine use of nitrile gloves and proper ventilation in the darkroom. Don't be fooled into thinking something "low odor" is necessarily for that reason entirely safe.

Ordinary stop bath is simply acetic acid. In concentrated fashion as Glacial Acetic Acid it's highly dangerous to either contact or breathe the fumes of. Diluted way down, it's no different than the vinegar you use in salad dressing.

Steve Goldstein · Mar 16, 2021

Citric acid stop bath is pretty painless. Add 15 grams of citric acid to a liter of water (the exact amounts aren't critical) and you've got your no-odor stop bath. You can buy the stuff in the market - it's used in home canning, I think - or maybe in health-food stores. Citric acid is a powder, it'll keep forever if you keep it dry. I've been using it for years for printing, along with Ilford Rapid Fix, and have a virtually odorless darkroom. That's a good thing, because there's no ventilation other than opening the door from time to time

Don't save mixed Citric acid stop, use it and dump it. I've read (on the internet, so it must be true!) that stuff will grow in it. Stuff will also grow in partly-used Acetic acid stop bath but it takes months - I had this happen once.

Rudeofus · Mar 16, 2021

As Donald Qualls and Drew Wiley already elaborated, toxic developers may not smell, and the most irritating developer may be the most benign - health wise.

There are various reasons for pursuing your goals, with different remedies:

You want to pour used chemistry down the drain in order to avoid dealing with hazmat: In this case a very dilute developer like HC-110, Ilford HC or Rodinal are your best bets. All types of stop bath will fit the bill, but odorless stop bath will be less obvious. Regardless of what you use as developer and stop bath: you should not pour used fixer down the drain. Since most hazmat people don't know analog photographic processes, they will most likely not ask, why you bring a gallon of used fixer and nothing else.
You want to drink&party during dark room sessions, or work with kids: in this case I recommend a near neutral and mostly non-toxic developer like XTol. Any stop bath will work, but odorless stop bathes will cause less irritation. Fixers are generally not very toxic or corrosive, and there are neutral fixers which are even less harmful to skin.
You just want to be environmentally conscious: in this case it depends on where you live. XTol typically counts as not very toxic, but citrus fruit can't stand the borates it contains. Your best bet may be a dilute developer like in (1). Stop bath won't have much of an environmental impact, and spent fixer needs to go to hazmat no matter what.

removed account4 · Mar 16, 2021

eddie said:
I think Sprint makes a vanilla scented stop bath.

yes sprint makes odorless developer and fixer and vanilla scented stop bath, they are all in a liquid concentrate
and are mixed with ease. they ship off of their website https://www.sprintsystems.com

MattKing · Mar 16, 2021

IlfoStop - the Ilford product - is citric acid based. I use it when I print.

Wayne · Mar 16, 2021

One tablespoon of citric acid per liter, stir. Done. There's your stop. I bought 30 lbs once and will probably never run out in this life.

grainyvision · Mar 16, 2021

tballphoto said:
Could you suggest some citric acid stop bath by name or even one of those fixers?

I have a hard time figuring out what product is what, film photo project and their rebranded products really make things hard to compare.

Or at the least think of anyone with a website that uses those?

As others said, just buy some food grade citric acid powder. I bought 5lbs for $15. Only warning is that if you're making citric acid stop bath yourself, don't keep it around for more than a week. Citric acid is mold's favorite food.

For other recommendations, most developers are not smelly. HC-110 (old formula, unsure about new) has a mild smell, and D-76 and Xtol are practically odorless unless you're trying to huff the bottle. Fixer is more complex and you'll have to learn which smell you're more sensitive to. TF-4 is an alkaline fixer that many people say is odorless, and other people say reeks. I don't find it too troubling, but it definitely smells of ammonia. Meanwhile, other people say a typical rapid fixer like Ilford's stinks to high heaven and I can only really detect it if I put my nose to the bottle (vinegar and sulfur smell). An alternative if you really must have absolutely no odor is to use plain thiosulfate. You'll have to mix this from raw chemicals. It lasts forever in a closed and unused bottle, but once used even once you'll want to dispose of it within 8 hours or so. Thiosulfate is cheap, but not so cheap as to make this an economical exercise. For this though, basically add 100g to 1L of distilled water. Use as much as is needed, add a pinch of sulfite or baking soda to increase pH slightly just before use (prevents bleaching in case of acid carry over) and discard after use. The big plus side is that with proper patience (this is not a rapid fixer, it'll take 5-10m for film) is that this is known to be practically the safest way to create archival negatives.

Jonno85uk · Mar 17, 2021

Rudeofus said:
Regardless of what you use as developer and stop bath: you should not pour used fixer down the drain.

I came across something that conflicted with this advice not too long ago. I was dubious and not knowledgeable enough to know if it was true or not.

Silver from a photographic process leaves the system as a practically non-toxic complex with thiosulphate. The binding of silver to thiosulphate is extremely strong and prevents the release of free silver ions (the toxic form of silver); silver thiosulphate is rapidly transformed in waste water treatment plants into non-toxic silver sulphide. Silver sulphide is very stable and insoluble, so it will not change further and precipitates as sludge.

However, sewer codes both Federal and local stringently regulate silver because in some other forms it is toxic, and they don't categorize.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AnalogCommunity/comments/lyc5jm/adventures_in_used_fixer_part_xiv/gptp8yd/

Rudeofus · Mar 17, 2021

The water soluble silver thiosulfate complexes are about as tight as Silver Bromide. Sulfide, Iodide and many Sulfur containing compounds (some proteins) will easily break this complex apart. Steel wool will also break this complex apart. Light will break this complex apart.

I have no idea, what these Redditor's statements are based on. Yes, silver thiosulfate complexes are more benign than Silver Nitrate, but I would also suspect, that most sewers generate enough Hydrogen Sulfide to capture all the silver very quickly.

In light of all this, I accept, that hazmat wants that spent fixer, and fortunately in my country hazmat disposal of spent photo chemistry is free (at least at amateur levels).

nosmok · Mar 18, 2021

I leach the silver out of my spent fixer with steel wool for several weeks, then dilute and pour down the drain, or take to household chemical disposal (I use EcoPro Neutral).

tballphoto · Mar 24, 2021

I live in the boonies and have well water and septic system. I rreally want to avoid the old conundrum of "outhouse 3 feet from well". And the local authority only does a waste collection for that type of material once a year if we are lucky. SO im trying to get as safe as possible as i dont want to end up with 50 drums of chemical waste on the patio.

Rudeofus · Mar 24, 2021

How many rolls of film to you see yourself developing in this timeframe between hazmat pickups? If we are talking about a dozen of rolls per year, then two batches of D-76 and a liter of neutral fixer is all you need.

tballphoto · Mar 24, 2021

Rudeofus said:
How many rolls of film to you see yourself developing in this timeframe between hazmat pickups? If we are talking about a dozen of rolls per year, then two batches of D-76 and a liter of neutral fixer is all you need.

last year i did perhaps 20 as i was trying to find a film i liked.

year before that i shot about 60 rolls of color at minimum.

Wayne · Mar 24, 2021

if you are concerned about disposal you can call the nearest town with a treatment plant and ask if you can drop off some of your effluent there. I used to do that when I was developing a lot of Cibachrome and didn't want to dump it in my septic. I would bring it down in 5 gallon buckets with lids

Danner · Mar 24, 2021

XTOL

pour-it-down-the-drain

Rudeofus · Mar 26, 2021

tballphoto said:
last year i did perhaps 20 as i was trying to find a film i liked.

year before that i shot about 60 rolls of color at minimum.

So an environmentally friendly color process would be more of a concern then?

Auer · Mar 26, 2021

Danner said:
XTOL

pour-it-down-the-drain

Not if you have a septic.
Silver kills beneficial bacteria.

Donald Qualls · Mar 26, 2021

Auer said:
Not if you have a septic.
Silver kills beneficial bacteria.

Not going to be much silver in Xtol 1+1 that's been used for a single roll per 300 ml. I probably wouldn't dump a whole liter of spent fixer down there (though that still represents only a few grams of silver, which will become insoluble silver sulfide pretty quickly), but a tank of Xtol now and then won't cause trouble.

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