Non standard ventilation in a rental apartment?

Andrey · Jan 14, 2008

I won't have a room for a dedicated darkroom anytime soon, so I have to use one of the two bathrooms in the rental apartment.

After one photographer explained to me what a "developer's droop" is, I don't want to be developing paper and the droop at the same time.

I can't make holes in the walls for a vent, it's a rental appartment.

There is little air movement. The ventilation system of the building is enough not to suffocate while you're showering, but not enough for paper processing.

I'd be happy to hear your ideas to this problem.

I can think of two so far:
1) Self Contained Breathing Apparatus
2) a respirator mask hooked up to the outside. I'll get clean air at minimal cost.
3) sulfur dioxide respirator? Is there anything besides sulfur dioxide that's harmful?

I want a darkroom, but not the fumes. :confused:

Thanks

On the upside I won't have to worry about butane heaters in the winter.

Jim Noel · Jan 14, 2008

If there is a window, cut a piece of plywood to fit the opening and install a bathroom fan in the ply wood. It may be necessary to build a light baffle to fit over it.

Andrey · Jan 14, 2008

No windows

noseoil · Jan 14, 2008

Is there a ventilation fan in the bathroom (pardon the expression from a construction worker, but a far+ fan)? Usually there is one, so having it on may help move some air out. Only drawback would be having to work at night with the door partly open. Is the bottom of the door cut enough to allow some air into the room? tim

Sanjay Sen · Jan 14, 2008

What is a "developer's droop"?

23mjm · Jan 14, 2008

I use a 2nd bathroom in my place and what do is turn on the just the fan on the HVAC unit to pump in some fresh air and then turn on the exhaust fan to pull some air to try to give some air changes. This system seams to work well, no third eyes or gills yet

I do turn off the exhaust fan while trying to make "fine" prints--the thing seams to vibrate a lot. But I turn it back on after the enlarger is done exposing the pic.

Andrey · Jan 14, 2008

No fan, but love the terminology.

I can almost slide a finger below the door. So maybe half an inch gap is in there.

There's some draw in the ventilation, but not much. I tested with a piece of toilet paper for sucking.

Andrey · Jan 14, 2008

Sanjay Sen said:
What is a "developer's droop"?

It's when a member of the body goes limp and stays that way.

Akki14 · Jan 14, 2008

I just have a bathroom fan in my bathroom darkroom plus my darkroom has a dry half so it's a fairly large space. I can print all day in there but I do come out to see normal light occasionally.

Akki14 · Jan 14, 2008

Andrey said:
It's when a member of the body goes limp and stays that way.

That's silly, someone's stringing you on, I've only ever heard of brewer's droop and that's from drinking too much alcohol unless your darkroom going friend is drinking all his chemicals and his beer, you're not likely to have any problems.

Andrey · Jan 14, 2008

Akki14 said:
That's silly, someone's stringing you on, I've only ever heard of brewer's droop and that's from drinking too much alcohol unless your darkroom going friend is drinking all his chemicals and his beer, you're not likely to have any problems.

Interesting. He's not the kind to be stringing people on, but maybe he's misguided.

How do I know if the ventilation is adequate though? Is there a way to measure/make sure?

Andrey · Jan 14, 2008

Hehe.

Well.. the first post has got to be stupid, doesn't it?

pauliej · Jan 14, 2008

You need to check with your landlord, or check your rental agreement, to make sure your allowed (or not forbidden) to do this in your apt. You dont want to violate your rental agreement. Better to check in advance than to have something bad happen later.

I hope this helps you.

Paul

Akki14 · Jan 15, 2008

pauliej said:
You need to check with your landlord, or check your rental agreement, to make sure your allowed (or not forbidden) to do this in your apt. You dont want to violate your rental agreement. Better to check in advance than to have something bad happen later.

I hope this helps you.

Paul

I'd check with building regs too. I'm quite surprised it's legal to have no ventilation in a bathroom and no windows (my parents' new house has no fan vent for the bathrooms because building regs say the builders don't have to put one in because there's windows instead... like someone is going to open a window for ventilation in January in New Hampshire?!)

matti · Jan 15, 2008

Try to use citric acid for stop and a non smelly fixer and just open the door once in a while. I get by pretty well but then my house is not that well insulated...
/matti

jovo · Jan 15, 2008

Actually, the cost of a door is rather small if you get it from Home Depot or the like. Take off the one that's there and store it. You can do anything you want to do to your own door so you can install a large vent, fan or whatever works. Re-hang the landlord's door when you move away.

haris · Jan 15, 2008

Look at something like this: http://www.novadarkroom.com/product/330/Filtaire_Air_Purifier.html

BobNewYork · Jan 15, 2008

I remember seeing the results of a long term study - something like 30 years - on the effects of exposure to chemicals on photo lab workers. Turned out that lab workers had a longer life expectancy than the average. Don't think that means that dev, stop and fix extends your life(!) but it would suggest that they're not harmful. Dipping your parts into selenium toner is not recommended - whether you have ventilation or not!

Developer droop arises from a full night trying to perfect a print from that difficult negative. That is not related to ventilation either!! I've been processing for 30 odd years with limited ventilation; don't use tongs or gloves, (except for selenium toning) - and I'm still vertical.

Monophoto · Jan 15, 2008

Andrey said:
No fan, but love the terminology.

I can almost slide a finger below the door. So maybe half an inch gap is in there.

There's some draw in the ventilation, but not much. I tested with a piece of toilet paper for sucking.

I suggest having a discussion with the landlord.

Where I live, bathroom ventilation is REQUIRED by building codes. If the bathroom in your apartment has neither windows or ventilation, you may have a legitimate complaint and you may have a basis for asking him to take some action that would solve the problem you anticipate when you use the bathroom as a darkroom.

But I also suggest that you NOT disclose that your motivation is to use the bathroom as a darkroom. Limit the discussion to bathroom ventilation.

Sanjay Sen · Jan 15, 2008

BobNewYork said:
Developer droop arises from a full night trying to perfect a print from that difficult negative. That is not related to ventilation either!! I've been processing for 30 odd years with limited ventilation; don't use tongs or gloves, (except for selenium toning) - and I'm still vertical.

Thank you!

JBrunner · Jan 15, 2008

Nothing bad is going to happen to Willy.

A respirator mask hooked by a hose to the outside is just going to asphyxiate you as you breath the same air in the tube over and over.

Consider using water for a stop bath.

There are "odorless" fixers.

A small space is a double edged sword. It doesn't take much to foul the air, but it doesn't take much to ventilate it, either.

An 80cfm bathroom fan (standard) will probably suffice, either installed by your landlord in the bathroom proper (for far+ purposes) or in "your own door" as suggested, if your LL says sorry, mine don't, why do yours?

Perhaps there is another room that could suffice near the bathroom? Dry side outside, wet in the B-room door open?

Andrey · Jan 15, 2008

I need to clarify that there is an opening for ventilation, but no fan in there. There is some air movement, but I'd like more.

So if I go complain, they'd say it's sufficient airflow and nothing should be done.

I guess I'm just too paranoid and been spoiled by laboratory fumehoods where I spend my day.

I'll explore the door replacement option.

Shmoo · Jan 15, 2008

Another alternative is to get trays that have lids that are easily removable, like food service trays (they have lids for them). I used to put the lids on when I wasn't using the tray and take them off when I was. It's a little less convenient than having open trays, but you don't necessarily use the trays 100 percent of the time any way.

JBrunner · Jan 15, 2008

Andrey said:
I need to clarify that there is an opening for ventilation, but no fan in there. There is some air movement, but I'd like more.

So if I go complain, they'd say it's sufficient airflow and nothing should be done.

I guess I'm just too paranoid and been spoiled by laboratory fumehoods where I spend my day.

I'll explore the door replacement option.

Why not rig a fan in the ventalation opening, even temporarily?

Andrey · Jan 15, 2008

JBrunner said:
A respirator mask hooked by a hose to the outside is just going to asphyxiate you as you breath the same air in the tube over and over.

I thought there'd be 2 valves preventing that. :confused:

Consider using water for a stop bath.

An 80cfm bathroom fan (standard) will probably suffice, either installed by your landlord in the bathroom proper (for far+ purposes) or in "your own door" as suggested, if your LL says sorry, mine don't, why do yours?

I have a feeling the door fan is the only option. How do I make it lightproof?

Perhaps there is another room that could suffice near the bathroom? Dry side outside, wet in the B-room door open?

I'd want the bathroom. It's big enough for a dry and wet side.

I don't want to be printing at night. I have enough problems staying up past 3 during exam sessions and if I bring up that I need TWO rooms completely dark, my family will say that I can rent my own flat and all of it dark and lightproof.

Non standard ventilation in a rental apartment?

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