Non Perforated B&W 35mm film?

GregW · Feb 10, 2013

I can't find any recent posts concerning this. I've been trying to find some to reload for my Kodak 500 Instamatic. I've been working through a dozen rolls of wonderful HR100 fuji and saving the 126 cartridges and backing paper to reload. I've seen color film (Portra and Konica) but the only bw i see is in Europe. GP film. (General Photo) I've tried reloading perfed 35 and while it has it's charm I'd rather get the full frame without sprocket holes. Does anyone know of a source for bulk rolls of non pert 35? Also anyone ever use the General stuff if it comes to that?
I love this little camera, the 38mm lens is a joy and it's nice and quiet so great for a street photography etc..
Greg

Gerald C Koch · Feb 10, 2013

Instimatic 126 film has 1 perforation per frame used for positioning of each frame. Some low end cameras do not use this feature but many high end cameras do. That being said the obly non-perforated film of this size that I am aware of is some microfilms.

mr.datsun · Feb 10, 2013

Greg, I presume you've seen this? He's using standard 35mm:

http://www.lomography.com/magazine/...gando-tu-carrete-de-126-con-pelicula-de-35-mm

GregW · Feb 10, 2013

Yeah, I saw that. I've run a couple rolls of Tmax that I rerolled. My plan was to make a template to punch the single hole per frame layout. Use recycled 120 backing paper that i'd punch and trim for length and width at the same time. (when the backing paper i have wears out) I have enough opened cartridges so i could do a nice size batch.

jochen · Feb 11, 2013

Hello,
nearly all microfilms like Kodak Imagelink HQ or Agfa Copex Pan Rapid are unperforated 35 mm films. They are sold in bulk rolls and are rather cheap.

GregW · Feb 11, 2013

Jochen, That's interesting. So does one process these with typical developer like d76? or do they require something special? This is promising, thanks!

MartinP · Feb 11, 2013

The actual speed is around 6asa and you will need a special developer to have a result with pictorial contrast.

Could you perhaps strip down 120 film? That would open up a lot of possibilities for you.

GregW · Feb 11, 2013

This may be the direction i head. I set up an old cheap TLR with an xacto blade and made a test strip pretty easily and conveniently the length is the same as 24 exp 126. This also conveniently provides a backing paper strip. I've found a clear plastic ruler that is exactly 35mm wide to use as a perforating jig. two of them hinged along their length to form template, predrilled holes to align my punch. put a peg in the first hole to keep it from moving...
greg

wblynch · Feb 12, 2013

Can you roll that up tight enough to fit in the feeder side of the cartridge?

ath · Feb 12, 2013

IIRC only 2 or 3 years ago there was plenty of bulk roll APX100 np (not perforated) on the bay. Some buyers had an unpleasent surprise when they found out what np means...
maybe worthwile to place a wtb ad for this film.

searching for "APX100 np" found this: http://www.tradekey.com/selloffer_view/id/816659.htm

GregW · Feb 12, 2013

Bill, yes, it rolled up fine for my test. That's with the original backing paper, I think it should be okay with the 120 paper. Late last night I ordered a roll of this :
Dead Link Removed
Compard/Agfa Belgium Surveillance film 400 asa. NP. works out to about a buck and a half a roll (24 exp 126 format) including shipping. I think the APX100 is a similar film. This is supposedly more sensitive into the red. They said it is similar to Rollei retro400s.
BTW the customer service was terrific.
while i wait for the film I'm going to figure out the details on a perforating jig/work station.
I'll probably use the 120 method to make up some color rolls. e6 etc...

wblynch · Feb 12, 2013

Thanks for the links. I do want to get some black and white for my 126.

Let us know how your jig works out. I had a similar idea a while back but never got around to making it.

GregW · Feb 20, 2013

Well, I got my unperforated film yesterday from General Photography in Germany. Pretty quick, Only 7 days. Spent about 3 hours finishing the jig. Took about 15 minutes to make the first roll up and get it in the cassette. I'm using a ⅛" hole punch for the film perf. It's a little small. I need to find something slightly larger. A normal hole punch is too big. It is working however, I've fired off a few shots and if I advance the film slowly it finds the perf and cocks the shutter. Wind too fast and it skates over the perf. BTW I found a craft punch that is perfect for making the frame registration holes in the backing paper when I need to make new backing paper.
BTW the jig is similar to a dovetail jig in woodworking.

AgX · Feb 21, 2013

Why did that lever glide out of the holes?
I mean, a hole is a hole. And as long as it is big enoug to receive the lever, the lever should stick.

A somewhat mechanized punch would be nice. One could modify a office-punch by turning the bolt smaller and add a steel counter-plate with hole of corresponding size.

GregW · Feb 21, 2013

I'm not sure why it skates by? Maybe the hole is off by a mm or so? What I thought about doing is modify the jig and just punch the hole twice making it an oval. I also may try sharpening a brass rectangular tube of the right size and epoxy that onto the hole punch with a counter-plate made from the next size tube. i believe they are available in Model Shops.

AgX · Feb 21, 2013

I guess brass would be too soft.

David Lyga · Feb 21, 2013

Kodak ImageLink microfilm is sold in non-perforated 35mm. It is rather difficult to get but is still avaliable. But...most vendors require that it be bought in multiples of many 100ft rolls (about $20 per roll). Speed for continuous tone (with very restricted latitude) is only about EI 2. For development try giving HALF the development time as for Pan F.

I used to deal with this person at inceptiontech.com: dhaddad@inceptiontech.com. The location is 1 Sundial Ave, Suite 214, Manchester, NH. The phone is 603.222.2202 ext 212, or toll free: 877.475.2580. They sell it rebranded as Kodak Professional Film. I think that they required minimum of 50 rolls though. But you can get techical information and possibly others might wish to divide - David Lyga

GregW · Feb 21, 2013

Thanks David. This Unperfed Agfa/Compard was so easy to get I'll probably explore this for a while. I just developed my first roll. Used Caffenol. Found the reason for the skipped frames. The hole punch didn't fully punch the hole. The film is tougher than I expected. The film sort of stretched or left little strands that held the punched out disc in place? anyway. A more careful firm punch and I should be ok. The next roll should be a lot easier. I need to work out a good developer for this.

AgX · Feb 21, 2013

The film is tougher than I expected.

Don't forget, it's PET.

David Lyga · Feb 21, 2013

Don't get any film debris into your camera mechanism.

And that leads to another question: if, in the future, you wish to use unperforated film as perforated film, is there a sane and predictable way to punch holes cleanly and accurately? I think not, in practical terms. - David Lyga

cmacd123 · Feb 21, 2013

David Lyga said:
: if, in the future, you wish to use unperforated film as perforated film, is there a sane and predictable way to punch holes cleanly and accurately?

Some Old movie labs still have Bell and Howell perforating machines. not an item that is used much by labs any more. the machine would cost a fiortune new of course.
Dead Link Removed

ADOX.DE posted a video a while ago of the old (I suspect x-Forte) perforating and frame ninbering machine thay had rebuilt. (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

GregW · Feb 22, 2013

Ha! Maybe a kickstarter to buy a Buco perforator ? 2/1000ths of a mm?!
btw I fixed the problem. The jig was not allowing the punch to fully close. Made up another roll a lot quicker now. A lot of the time gets spent feeling around for tools, scissors etc. Having a good work station is key. Luckily this film is dead flat. no curl at all. none. I'm going to try punching two strips of film at once. Testing the punch with scrap worked fine. I also found another brand of punch which is much better quality and the head shape is cleaner. I may make a new jig to fit one of these punches.

MartinP · Feb 23, 2013

Well done for the progress on your jig arrangement. I'm sure other people with 126 cameras would be interested in the system when you have it all set-up and streamlined. Then again, maybe you could take over the world supply of refilled 126 cartridges!

GregW · Feb 23, 2013

Ha! Yeah, months from now i emerge from my workroom with translucent skin and a rich man! Yesterday, a new jig completed for the better punch. And I've decided to jettison the backing paper. I'll put a little tape bump on the roll so I feel the end of the roll slide through. I've also put a little backing paper scrap to insure the film is in the right plane. Once I get it checked out with a couple of rolls I'll post pics of the design.

wblynch · Feb 23, 2013

Great idea! A lot less work and easier to fit into the cartridge without the backing paper.

Or use a backing paper "leader" to tape the bare film to. Kind of like 220?

Non Perforated B&W 35mm film?

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