No snap in 8x10 contact print ??

morkolv · Feb 14, 2006

After shooting, developing and scanning my first 8x10 negative with a great WOW!!

The time had come to the real thing.. CONTACT PRINTING, and was I expecting massive details and pin sharp print?? YES!!!

But no, the prints are great with respect to color (brown/black), tonality, general sharpness etc, but lack the distinct snap and "glow".. At least compared with my printed negative scan, so I know its in there... Where did I go wrong?? :confused:

- The papers I used are Ilford Multigrade IV RC (MGD44M) and Agfa Multicontrast Premium (MCP312RC),

- The light source is a std dimmed down 25 w household bulb giving exposure around 10 sec.

- The negative + paper in a real contact printing frame.

I'm starting to ting that I need filters to set the contrast ??
And would a 35mm enlarger (they are dirt cheap and very available ) with built in safelight and a filter pack do the job as light source for contact printing ?

Best regards

Dave Wooten · Feb 14, 2006

smooth

sometimes grain gives the impression of enhanced sharpness...also enlargement brings out detail we would not normally see in real life....a contact print should show smooth tonalities and when compared to an enlarged print of same film, and be pretty much grainless. Are your whites white and your blacks black, and are you happy with the mid tones? A print with many good tones in the mid range (as in platinum etc) does not always have the "snap" or contrast, is not as graphic etc...........Just some thoughts...of course if the contact print is 'Muddy" or "Flat" that is another situation

keep printing
Dave

Ole · Feb 14, 2006

Yes Morten, an enlarger is a great light source for contact prints. Especially with VC papers. But it's a lot more fun to do POP prints, Cyanotypes, van Dykes et cetera - you can sit in the sun and still be "working".

avandesande · Feb 14, 2006

I am guessing that you have a background doing enlargements? Much of that snap you see in an enlargement is the callier effect messing with the highlights. You wont get that in a contact print unless you push the highlights into the shoulder. You will need greater exposure(overall) and longer development.

Donald Qualls · Feb 14, 2006

Yes, contrast control filters under the light source will help a good bit. As it is, you're printing willy-nilly at Grade 2 or 2.5, instead of taking advantage of the ability of your paper to run the gamut from Grade 0 (or even 00, with some brands) to Grade 5 (or 6). What you're not seeing probably just means you need to try a half grade or one grade "harder" print, so something like a Grade 3 filter.

Also possible is that your scan was treated in some way (sharpening, unsharp masking, etc.) that covered a lack in the negative, but my experience has generally been that B&W negatives print better than they scan -- I spent a lot of time and effort learning to make scans that look like prints.

jovo · Feb 14, 2006

Donald Qualls said:
Also possible is that your scan was treated in some way (sharpening, unsharp masking, etc.) that covered a lack in the negative, but my experience has generally been that B&W negatives print better than they scan

My experience has been different. As soon as I start using levels or curves I have a vast degree of discrete control over highlights, midtones, and low values. Additionally, the transmitted light of the monitor brings out much more 'snap' than the print may have unless it's viewed in a particularly bright light. So...I have to work particularly hard to make my scans look like my prints, and I try to have a well illuminated print beside the monitor when making adjustments. As Donald also points out, various filters like unsharp mask can enhance sharpness that's harder to get in the print.

As suggested above, learn to print addressing the special techniques of the contact process. However, scans and prints are such different things that you should try to avoid judging one against the unique properties of the other.

morkolv · Feb 14, 2006

Ole said:
...... But it's a lot more fun to do POP prints, Cyanotypes, van Dykes et cetera - you can sit in the sun and still be "working".

It's on the list of must-do this spring!!! But Your suggestions is very tempting.. I guess cold beers are mandatory??

Ole · Feb 14, 2006

morkolv said:
I guess cold beers are mandatory??

Only with very dense negatives - or when sunset is approaching. The exposure times tend to get longer and longer and longer...

noseoil · Feb 14, 2006

Morton, is this a film / developer combination you have used in the past for enlarging on the same type of paper? If it is, then it is most likely as others have said, a filter problem with the light source and paper. The contact paper I use is a graded paper, so filters aren't important in printing. You might get a small amount of grade 2 paper and try printing on it. This should rule out anything except the film's contrast. If it is still too flat and not the way you like it, a bit more development might work. tim

User Removed · Feb 16, 2006

morkolv said:
- The papers I used are Ilford Multigrade IV RC (MGD44M) and Agfa Multicontrast Premium (MCP312RC)

Well, there is your problem! Why are you shooting 8x10 camera, and making prints on plastic RC paper?! Do you print on fiber paper?

RC is good for possibly PROOFING your negatives, but even that...8x10 negatives deserve more. You cannot get a quality "fine print" on RC paper.

If your going to all the work to shoot with an 8x10 camera, you cannot stop when you just get the negative! Your going to have to start printing on a better paper than RC! I suggest AZO, but any fiber paper would be better.

That is like putting plastic rims on a Mercedes Benz! Its just not a good combo.

leeturner · Feb 16, 2006

Ryan McIntosh said:
That is like putting plastic rims on a Mercedes Benz! Its just not a good combo.

Owned a 200E and a 230E and both had plastic rims over steel wheels as factory fitted

morkolv · Feb 16, 2006

noseoil said:
Morton, is this a film / developer combination you have used in the past for enlarging on the same type of paper?

No, I have no previous enlargement history.. And are basically selfstudied from books and sources like APUG I'm Just a computer geek slowly turing to a analog photo geek.. :rolleyes:

Ryan McIntosh said:
Well, there is your problem! Why are you shooting 8x10 camera, and making prints on plastic RC paper?!

That is like putting plastic rims on a Mercedes Benz! Its just not a good combo.

Point taken!! I will find some 8x10 fiber paper, in the meantime I will test a section with some 5x7 fiber paper I have.

Thanks!!

Amund · Feb 16, 2006

Is your printing bulb electronically dimmed? That could change the color temperature(more yellow?) and reduce contrast in the VC paper. Just a thought...

morkolv · Feb 16, 2006

blix@broadpark.no said:
Is your printing bulb electronically dimmed? That could change the color temperature(more yellow?) and reduce contrast in the VC paper. Just a thought...

Yes, it surely is... Hmmm.. I will do some test with a un-dimmed bulb at a larger distance.

Takk for godt råd Amund!! Ps ble dere mange forrige søndag i Oslo?

morkolv · Feb 16, 2006

jdef said:
The easiest way to make a glowing print is to .........<plenty of good advice>.... . Good luck, and don't get discouraged.

Jay

No way, just more trial and error (hmm fun

Amund · Feb 16, 2006

morkolv said:
Yes, it surely is... Hmmm.. I will do some test with a un-dimmed bulb at a larger distance.

Takk for godt råd Amund!! Ps ble dere mange forrige søndag i Oslo?

Vi ble hele tre stykker. Det var bikkjekaldt, så det ble ikke så mye foto, men plenty kaffe og hygge..

morkolv · Feb 16, 2006

blix@broadpark.no said:
Vi ble hele tre stykker. Det var bikkjekaldt, så det ble ikke så mye foto, men plenty kaffe og hygge..

Det var kulda som ikke fristet meg, etter storformat kurs i vigelandsparken med minus 15 grader for litt over ett år siden.. Kommer tilbake sterke når det blir varmere i været.

Ole · Feb 16, 2006

blix@broadpark.no said:
Vi ble hele tre stykker. Det var bikkjekaldt, så det ble ikke så mye foto, men plenty kaffe og hygge..

Nå er jeg nesten glad jeg ikke var der
Så var jeg da ikke i Vigelandsparken den gangen heller - dro heller hjem til mildvær vestpå!

Thomas Bertilsson · Feb 16, 2006

Visste inte att det var Norsk-monopol har. Som svensk kanner jag mig lite osidosatt... Bara po skoj, forstos.

morkolv · Feb 17, 2006

huggyviking said:
Visste inte att det var Norsk-monopol har. Som svensk kanner jag mig lite osidosatt... Bara po skoj, forstos.

Det er bra, fortsett med det!! Spesiellt i disse OS tider hvor Sverige nå leder på antall medaljer forran Norge.

Burde vi foreslått ett eget Scandinavian forum til Sean mon tro??

philldresser · Feb 17, 2006

Either you are all speaking a different language or my computer has gone on the blink

morkolv · Feb 17, 2006

philldresser said:
Either you are all speaking a different language or my computer has gone on the blink

I would work a bit on the blink theory, if I was you

It's Norwegian, and a bit of Swedish.. and just chatting..

However a Scandinavian forum or regional group could be established in the APUG context. If Sean and the moderators agree

philldresser · Feb 17, 2006

Vi ville frk. din samtalen

Hope that makes sense to you.

Phill

morkolv · Feb 17, 2006

philldresser said:
Vi ville frk. din samtalen

Hope that makes sense to you.

Phill

Nope, but it opens up for interesting interpretations, as I sure my English does

philldresser · Feb 17, 2006

LOL I typed in to a translation engine (English to Norwegian)

we will miss your conversation

So much for technology

Phill

No snap in 8x10 contact print ??

morkolv

Dave Wooten

Ole

Moderator

avandesande

Donald Qualls

jovo

Membership Council

morkolv

Ole

Moderator

noseoil

User Removed

leeturner

morkolv

Amund

morkolv

morkolv

Amund

morkolv

Ole

Moderator

Thomas Bertilsson

morkolv

philldresser

morkolv

philldresser

morkolv

philldresser

No snap in 8x10 contact print ??

Moderator

Membership Council

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency